Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Fresh Start: Joint LCSP-Living Wightman Submisson to Haringey
The LCSP (traffic sub-group) and Living Wightman have contributed recently in the development of a resident led submission to Haringey in relation to traffic and the Ladder. I am pleased to share the "Fresh Start" document with you below. I have also copied the email circulated to the LCSP membership setting out the context of the Fresh Start document.
I am also pleased to share a joint letter from the LCSP and Living Wightman to Haringey setting out a request to extend the current Wightman closure until the Green Lanes Traffic Study reports back in December.
We welcome any constructive feedback and thoughts, and importantly ideas!
Justin Guest
Chair LCSP Traffic Sub-Committee
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You will no doubt be aware of the fact the Green Lane Traffic Study is in progress. To contribute to this process the LCSP has coordinated with the Living Wightman Campaign to prepare a resident led submission document that has gone to the council. The “Fresh Start” document aims to characterise the problems faced by many Ladder residents as the Ladder has increasingly become a sacrificial zone as a result what has historically been weak traffic management planning on Green Lanes.
The document sets out the impacts of this weakness in planning, and how the application of ever more pressure on a narrower subset of roads in the borough to act as a relief valve has affected the Ladder.
The document is designed to provoke thought and offer insights to decision makers and influencers who may not be familiar with the area. The document goes further in proposing a partnership between the council and residents in what will hopefully be a long term effort to fundamentally change the profile of traffic flows across the Ladder and surrounding areas.
We also jointly make recommendations as to actions that can be taken to begin making meaningful progress in reducing the traffic burden on the area. We recognise the solution may not be a result of a single intervention, and as a result, as the Green lanes Traffic Study progresses, the Fresh Start document is designed to be a living document, which we hope to add to at appropriate moments and re-circulate to keep the discussion alive.
For those of you with feedback you are welcome to contact myself in the first instance.
Please also see attached the joint Living Wightman letter agreed at the last LCSP meeting requesting a temporary extension of the Wightman closure until the Green Lanes Traffic Study reports back.
Please note, the traffic sub-group will aim to meet next week. We do not have a date yet. We welcome the ongoing participation of Ladder residents, and if anyone would like to come along, or represent their road please let me know. You will be most welcome.
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic, wightman bridge closure
- Attachments:
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Fresh Start 290716.pdf, 4 MB -
letter to Peray Ahmet 22 July 2016.pdf, 322 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nick on
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Will this not just move the problem to the side roads, with more cars pulling out onto Green Lanes?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Well, parked car have to pull out into Green Lanes traffic as they move off anyway. It will do away with the parking up issue and the problems at bus stops. Parked raffic going onto GL will be entering a broader northbound lane making it easier for moving traffic to pass by.
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Permalink Reply by maggie on
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The number of car parking spaces on the west side of the Green Lanes is quite modest, I counted 51 available spaces between Umfreville to Effingham which embraces 12 ladder roads so would only mean 4-5 extra parking spaces reserved for shoppers on the bottom of each of these ladder roads.
I didn't look at the east side of Green Lanes as it has a bus lane already.
Green Lanes appears only marginally narrow than needed for bus lanes in both directions unless a novel approach to road markings allow the use of a bus lane going south in the morning and then a bus lane going north in the evening.
As it is having no parking on the west side in the evening 4-7 pm, without a bus lane, means that there is a sinle line of traffic next to a corridor of empty road. I'm sure someone with imagination and road planning expertise could come up with something better if only the parking could be removed.
There is also the question of illegal parking and deliveries making the present bus lane sometimes useless when it should be in use between 7-10am.
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I do not think the main problem is parking. It's the sheer volume of traffic, particularly at peak times.
Removing parking and adding extra lanes will make the road hostile to pedestrians, and is a very blunt solution to the proposed 'removal' of the lanes on Wightman Road.
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It not the sole mitigation mentioned Nick, there are several which taken together should help. Not sure how removing parking would make the road more hostile to pedestrians. Crossing the road between parked cars is really risky, especially high sided vehicles
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Nick, "sheer volume of traffic" is not on its own a problem, plenty of roads carry more volume than GL without grinding to a halt.
Think about it. The thing that causes you to stop is when someone in front of you stops. To let someone enter the road or leave or a parking space, or waits to turn right, or waits to let someone else turn right from the opposing lane, or stops when the bus stops, or stops at the lights.
When these things happen in close succession even with a moderate volume of traffic you get that thing where you're waiting at the lights and can't even move forward when the lights go green because the way isn't clear in front, because of some other turning or parking movements or other stoppages in front. Gridlock.
There are just too many opportunities for this to happen particularly between the Salisbury and the Arena. The more of these opportunities we can reduce, the better traffic will flow. Longer bus lane hours, shorter or different loading hours and remove parking altogether, relocate busstops where possible, remove or relocate traffic lights where possible, perhaps prevent some or all right turns by introducing a median kerb, perhaps prevent cars entering GL by making some or all rungs and garden roads one-way leading away from GL.
Not a blunt instrument, but a carefully constructed package of measures which gets traffic moving and improves the amenity of the area making it more attractive for people to visit the shops and restaurants. A package of measures which allows Wightman to remain a filtered or low traffic area which improves the lives of 10,000 people.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Here is one solution as to what to do with any 'extra space' generated!
Something in this for everyone!
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Nick, couldn't follow on from you post. No, a road that has traffic on it will never be completely safe, but a lot can be done to make them safer which is surely worthwhile. Life will never be free from risk but risk can be managed
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Hi Jus, an amazing piece of work. Well done and thanks.
If I can help let me know. I do think there could be more accurate means of understanding and quantifying behaviour and perhaps turning some of those theories and correlations into causal inferences.
Dan
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Hi Justin
Just to let you know I've had a first quick look through the document and will read it fully over the weekend. I agree - this is an amazing and substantial contribution to the whole issue. Peray told me yesterday that there was a meeting scheduled for Monday evening. I will be there so look forward to seeing you and reps form the other groups.
All the best
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay ward
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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In her absence I'd like to thank Julia Smith who was both the principal author and the main driving force behind getting this paper done. Michael Anderson was a whizz with assembling all the data and presenting it in a digestible form.
Thanks also to Penny Andrews and Justin for their contributions and to both Dick Harris and Stephen Hartley for their material which made one section in particular much easier to write!
It was a pleasure working with Julia and her team to craft this document.
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Thanks Hugh, absolutely right to make this point. My own role was limited, others did far more heavy lifting!
As mentioned, this is a living and evolving document and if you have points, comments, and suggestions for improvements, other elements to include or information that may be of use- indeed if you would like to contribute- please do let us know.
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