Wightman Road Closure Causing Chaos In Surrounding Roads

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 30, 2016 at 11:07

Nicole, I understand your frustration with the current situation, but please allow me to share a couple of salient points.

Many Ladder residents, probably still the majority, bought houses on what for the most part were till quite recently relatively peaceful roads. Since then the traffic management changes in and around Wood Green and to the East of the Harringay stretch of Green Lanes have driven a huge amount of traffic on to the Ladder.  That was not the choice of Harringay residents.

What occasioned this current traffic management change was the need to replace an ageing railway bridge. That was not the choice of Harringay residents.

The traffic management plan required the rerouting of the 120,000 cars a week that currently use Wightman Road. The choice was to send it all up and down the Ladder roads, some of which are already suffering as rat runs, or to find alternative major arteries for it. The choice of how to manage that traffic was not in the gift of local residents, but I for one think the Council made the right choice. I'm assuming from what you've written that you would have chosen to send the traffic down the Ladder roads. Have I understood you correctly?

The current traffic situation in London is rarely a matter of choice. The situation on the Ladder is not one that most locals chose. It has happened to us. 

In your final sentence you suggest that only the wealthy should in effect have a choice to live free from traffic. At that I'm simply left speechless.

Permalink Reply by Nicole on March 30, 2016 at 11:55

I have lived in the area for over 15 years. This argument from ladder residents that congestion is 'new' is utter rubbish. It has always been a traffic black spot as it forms part of the relatively straight and direct route that leads to the north circular. That is the fundamental geography of the matter. Yes some roads that help ease it have been closed but it is laughable that the solution therefore to this is to close more roads!!
As for your last comment this is a debate about traffic not rich v's the poor. My point was that congested roads are cheaper to live on, if you make that choice you should accept the traffic. Or move to south Tottenham perhaps, cheaper and less traffic.

Permalink Reply by sparkle on March 30, 2016 at 12:26

No one thing is responsible for your delay yesterday. There was a burst water main + a major road closure + no/ineffective signage + many displaced drivers circling around and around. Having said that- it amazes me (your preference aside) that you would consider taking your child in a car from south tottenham to muswell hill to nursery every day(?) ... what. Muswell Hill? ??? If you travel there regularly you'll know traffic is often a nightmare even without road closures. I can understand you are angry because your unsustainable journey by car is now .... unsustainable by car.

I'm sure this is not my business and you will be no doubt annoyed at my temerity, please consider you are going through all this so that so your children can attend nursery with children they'll never end up going to school with or popping round for a playdate with. (unless a prospective lottery win is likely) 

Permalink Reply by DavidJ on March 30, 2016 at 12:45

Nicole

I think you need take some time to reflect on this.

I have lived in Harringay for over 30 years and I do know that traffic has become more of a problem - as it has in many places. We are all going to have to face some radical solutions to the problem of traffic - the belief that we all can choose to drive when and where we want is simply not sustainable. Laura's picture below makes the point about the problem of cars.  I have made many decisions about travel, nurseries and schools that have reduced dependence on the car. Indeed one of the major attractions of Harringay to was the fact that the the public transport options are so good here.

You seem to be suggesting that the current solution to the problem of the bridge closure should involve traffic being corralled onto the residential streets of Harringay (which you do not live on)  in order to facilitate your wish to drive to and from Muswell Hill everyday.  Seriously?

Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 30, 2016 at 13:30

Nicole, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. Whilst Wightman Road has been busy since I've known it, there are still people living here who remember when pavement parking was introduced 80's/90s?). That created greater flows and much faster speeds. 

With respect to the rung roads there is a wealth of anecdote as well as Council-generated data going back 15 years that shows a huge increase in traffic. I'm sure you believe what you say is accurate, but I'm sorry, it's just not. The closure of the Gardens roads and Hermitage Road drove a huge increase in traffic - and referring back to your previous post, none of that was the choice of the Ladder residents.

I've said my piece and I'll leave it there now. In the meantime I hope you're able to find a solution to your journey woes.

Permalink Reply by sparkle on March 30, 2016 at 15:44

You moved here 15 years ago, but unfortunately you are incorrect about your facts with regard to congestion and the ladder- it definitely hasn’t always been this way, things are *much* worse than they were. I moved to the ladder from Stroud Green in 2001. At that time there were (apart from Warham and I think Frobisher) NO one way roads, NO road humps and there wasn't pavement parking on Wightman. 

There was also very little heavy goods traffic on the ladder. I rarely if ever saw a truck on my road and i could safely cross the road or get my children/shopping out of a car without being mown down.

Yes, Green lanes was a nightmare because as you correctly point out- it is a trunk road heading north. Cars using Ladder rung roads & Wightman to avoid Green Lanes had to stop and wait and be cautious about passing, so they(usually) moved slower. Wightman road was busy, but not the car park it has latterly become. 

As traffic volumes increased, back in the day some roads saw an increase in damage to parked vehicles which meant some residents thought maybe the one way scheme was a good idea.(not me, i was totally surprised when the scheme started- it was another Haringey master stroke of communication)

I remember being told by the council it was part of a mayoral policy designed to 'get london moving' by Ken Livingstone. They then instigated the one way system plan, followed by road humps(necessary as the streets quickly became raceways), End of Street narrowings and then the pavement parking on Wightman. 

Yes, it certainly got cars moving- fast. much faster than speed limits and for the first time also trucks were able to use the Ladder rung roads as they no longer had to worry about not being able to pass on a narrow 2 way street. 

Now more traffic is encouraged to use this residential area as a cut through route by the ability to ignore speed and weight restrictions and bomb down the rung roads of the ladder to avoid congestion/intersections etc. While i know this is just an one person report- I personally have never seen a speeding or weight limit infringement penalty given to any vehicle on the ladder. There just isn't any enforcement.

You can disagree with Hugh all you like but it is utterly pointless because despite your bias towards it not being true- as he says, there is actual data to show that traffic volumes have increased and that this is in part because of traffic policy rather than 'just being a congested area'.. 

You might be interested to note that part of the reason cars can't flow so easily through Crouch End as an alternative isn't just structural in terms of the layout of the roads themselves- it is that the potential rat runs are all closed off (see: Nelson, Weston Pk, routes between Park Rd & Hornsey High St, routes between Middle Lane and Park Rd) so cars don't have the option of getting off a through road to try Hornsey High rd etc. It discourages them from going there unless they actually have to. Who would queue up on Park rd every evening otherwise?

Permalink Reply by Alexander Smith on March 30, 2016 at 17:20

Re. pavement parking in Wightman Road. I think it predates 2001 by quite a few years. It was in the 1980s, I recall, that the GLC cracked down on it London wide. The TV advertising campaign still sticks in my mind where an old lady booted a car off the footway into the road. Unfortunately, however, many streets were then deemed to have become too obstructed, and the practice was soon regularized/ encouraged, with pavements marked out etc., including on Wightman Road. So the crackdown backfired spectacularly and I have blamed Ken Livingstone for it ever since (every time I’m obstructed walking along Wightman Road).

Closure of other roads has certainly put pressure on Wightman, beginning with Hornsey Vale's Uplands Road/ Rathcoole Gardens in the ‘70s from which time we began to use Wightman Road more and more as an alternative route North.

Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on March 30, 2016 at 10:17

Ruth, the bridge works have to finish by before the rail works start in September. There is not an ounce of wriggle room. That's because the electrification works on the Gospel Oak to Barking line are dependent on the new bridge being a bit higher to allow electrically thingies to run underneath them. So, if the bridge works over run, the changes to the Gospel Oak to Barking line don't happen.

Permalink Reply by Gordon T on March 29, 2016 at 23:09

Journey to Holloway, Danni Jessie.  Well:

There's the Piccadilly Line station on Holloway Road, opposite London Met Uni main building.

The Victoria Line stops at the bottom of Holloway Road.

If you need the top end of Holloway Rd, the line from Harringay Green Lanes to Upper Holloway station (two stops) might hit the mark. AND - that leg of the Overground does   not   close in June. Not till September.

And there's the 29 bus.

I hope any of those are useful?

Permalink Reply by Ruth on March 30, 2016 at 7:00

Sounds lovely all those options but the reality is not so rosy!

During rush hour, those routes are very crowded as you know so for people with toddlers and babies in tow (one of each in Dani's case,) very difficult.

Often at Manor House and Finsbury park have to wait for 2 or 3 tubes to go by as you can't get on, platforms dangerously overcrowded. the Overground is also very crowded.... they are options and I as a non-driver use them but those with small kids, not so good. 

Permalink Reply by Jess on March 30, 2016 at 9:50

Thank you for the very informative reply Gordon T. I was really not aware of the transport links in my area....

Have you tried getting onto a tube that has no step free access in rush hour with 2 children? Genuine question...

If the overground does indeed close in September (My knowledge was phase 1 closure was Jun-Sept 2016) that would make me very happy at least I would have a route that I could reliably use.

Permalink Reply by Just another local on March 30, 2016 at 9:04

As a resident of a Ladder road that has been grouped into an up and down 2 road loop I was amazed how busy my road was last night, the level of traffic between 10 and 1am was really dense; given that making a journey up one road only to come down the next would have gained drivers no time to get up GL. I'm hoping this calms down as the weeks/months go by but it was not very restful.  

After dropping my kids at holiday club on the other side of GL today I noticed that the signage at the bottom of all the roads is really insufficent, it needs to be bolder and state that Wightman is closed to through traffic, rather than telling drivers the house numbers on Wightman that the road grants access to.  

Can't wait for the schools to go back and people to come back from holiday, its going to an interesting time.  

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