Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Update on Crossrail 2 in Haringey
Update from Sustainable Haringey Transport:
"TfL held a consultation meeting about the proposed Crossrail 2 underground line on 12th October. There are two branches in Haringey. One would come to the surface at Tottenham Hale and then serve stations along the Lea Valley. The other, remaining underground, would serve a station at Seven Sisters and then run either via Turnpike Lane and Alexandra Palace or via Wood Green. This consultation only concerned Turnpike Lane, Alexandra Palace and Wood Green. There is to be a further session to consider Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale. The timescale for the line is for construction during 2020s and to be open by 2030.
"TfL have already ‘safeguarded’ the route. This means that owners of properties within about 100 metres of the proposed line will need to notify TfL of any changes they propose to make to their property. TfL concerns are mostly to do with proposals to excavate foundations etc for large developments and should not affect smaller changes. Prospective buyers of property would need to be informed that the property is within the safeguarded area. If there is any evidence of blight as a result there is a mechanism for compensation. People within the safeguarded area have already been informed.
"TfL also have the power to compulsorily acquire property which they need to build the line. In most cases they will only require it during construction and then are obliged to restore it to its owner in its original condition. One site which is going to be used is in Ermine Road, South Tottenham, where they are storing material and digging a ventilation shaft. There might also be a need for a site in the West Green area if the Wood Green route is chosen (rather than Turnpike Lane and Alexandra Palace) but where this might be has not been decided. None of the sites mentioned appear to involve residential property.
"Attendees at the meeting were shown the work needed around the three stations:
"Turnpike Lane station would be expanded involving some changes to the bus station. It would also involve acquiring the shops on the corner of Westbury Avenue and Langham Road. It is also proposed to acquire the BHS store on the corner of the High Road and Whymark Avenue for the purpose of digging a ventilation shaft. Most of this site would be given back when the work is finished.
"Alexandra Palace station would be underneath the present main line station with an expanded entrance using the small shops and restaurants immediately to the south of the present entrance. It is also proposed to use some of Avenue Gardens for storage. ‘Most of’ Avenue Gardens would be restored after construction is finished.
"If the line serves Wood Green instead of Turnpike Lane and Alexandra Palace it is proposed to acquire the whole of the site bounded by the High Road, Buller Road, Redvers Road and Lordship Lane, including the cinema. Again most of it would be returned when work is finished.
"It’s early days yet. There is plenty of opportunity for protests and changes."
Tags for Forum Posts: crossrail 2
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Well, using your example of travelling to Green Park and Jubilee Line. It would be possible to travel Seven Sisters > Surrey Quays > Canary Wharf.
Perhaps that example was just pulled out of the hat by you?
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@Billy you may not have seen this. Published today.. City Hall taking control of National Rail routes.
https://www.london.gov.uk/mayor-assembly/london-assembly/publicatio...
and as a consequence, this:
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2015/devocalypse-now-taking-cont...
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Permalink Reply by Velo on
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Completely approve of it being connected to Ally Pally and Seven Sisters and South Tottenham being connected up. Is there a way to attend the consultations or do you when they will be discussing Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale?
I think the posters who say that the line is not needed just come and see how packed the Victoria Line is in the morning.
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Crossrail 2 will coming from Tottenham Hale to Seven Sisters anyway..
But I can think of a lot more pressing suburban links that need to be built before Seven Sisters > Turnpike Lane > Ally Pally. Why send people on 10km diversion via Hackney, when they can travel directly. This is all part of this condescending attitude (Give 'em another line to make them feel we haven't forgotten them) to the regeneration of Tottenham. I would like to wager that no riots, no Ally Pally link. It is not desperately needed - stop!
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Because Hackney is cool and loads of people want to go there. Just go there any evening.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Well, I imagine that few people travel from Cockfosters to Heathrow everyday but that hasn't stopped the Picadilly line being busy. While the folk of Hampton Court may not want to get to Ally Pally that often they may well want to get to Tottenham Court Road or Kings Cross while those of us in north London might find getting to Clapham Junction in a few minutes a boon.
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Haringey Crossrail Consultation schedule
From Glenn Tobin Crossrail 2 Local Communication and Engagement Officer
Below are the dates, times and locations for our public consultation events that we will be holding. This is a great opportunity for local residents to come and see the proposals and ask any questions they may have.- 04/11/2015 1200 – 2000 Wood Green, Sprouters Corner, 180 High Rd, N22 6EJ
- 05/11/2015 1200 – 2000 Wood Green, Sprouters Corner, 180 High Rd, N22 6EJ
- 11/11/2015 1200 - 2000 Tottenham Hale Retail Pk, Broad La, N15 4QD
- 12/11/2015 1200 - 2000 Tottenham Hale Retail Pk, Broad La, N15 4QD
- 21/11/2015 1100 - 1600 Northumberland Pk Resource Ctr, 177 Park La, N17 0HJ
- 04/12/2015 1200 – 2000 Turnpike La, Duckets Common, Willoughby Road, N8 0JQ
- 05/12/2015 1100 - 1600 Turnpike La, Duckets Common, Willoughby Rd, N8 0JQ
- 07/12/2015 1200 – 2000 Alexandra Pal, Parking Bays opp Station on Station Rd, N22 7ST
- 16/12/2015 1200 – 2000 Seven Sisters, Corner of High Rd and Broad La, N15 5AJ
- 18/12/2015 1200 – 2000 Seven Sisters, Corner of High Rd and Broad La, N15 5AJ
- 17/12/2015 1200 – 2000 Alexandra Pal, Parking Bays opp Station on Station Rd, N22 7ST
Glenn Tobin
Crossrail 2 Local Communication and Engagement Officer
Transport for London
Ph: 020 7126 4628 Ex: 64628
GlenTobin@tfl.gov.uk
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Crossrail 1 is being built for that American businessperson flying into Heathrow for that Canary Wharf tower meeting with the new Europeans Eurostaring in from the east. It keeps London as the world's business powerhouse and the high-end property market booming (London currently 3 times as many >£5m proerties as NYC or Tokyo). Their chauffeur driven cars also get delayed in London traffic.
Crossrail 2 has no real strategic purpose except to show that Borris is more infrastructure boy than Osbourne re Tory leadership battle, it's good for engineering jobs (votes), oh and Borris loves that tunnelling toy :)
He does get to link up the rich property owning 1 percenters in SW London to rugby, racing and tennis (with the regional rail options) with the occassional dinner in town. Suspect the northern part is a bit of mystery to them but it wouldn't be a Crossrail project for the bidding without we northerners would it. But then maybe towers are planned for Ally Pally Park ... as they already have been for Broadwater Farm. Slowly, slowly push out the servents to Thatcher's ring road and beyond.
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Or it could be a good way to move east/west without having to get off at a London terminal, get on the the tube and get on at another London terminal. I know this might be difficult to believe but not everyone actual wants to go to London, some people just want to get through it!
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This latest diagram clearly indicates what a real dog's dinner this line is. Anyone with any 'feel' for transport projects knows that they should 'flow' i.e. South West > North East, North West > South East. It's obvious to me, that the extension eastwards towards Leytonstone is more of a priority than Ally Pally. Sadly, Haringey Council for whatever reason, just seems to be grateful and happy to accept 'any' investment into public transport, regardless of how badly located the station/s are. They apparently prefer a station at Wood Green, rather than one at Turnpike Lane as 'it's nearer to the shopping area' - ??, oh really??
This is all 'big pie in the sky stuff' and anyways, there'll be a new mayor new year, so don't hold your breath. Remember Boris scrapping Ken's tram plans? And, there seem to many in SW London who are also not happy with the 'Balham Bulge' or 'Tooting Twist' - not a way to run build a railway.
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And why so many branches in the South West and yet so few North of the River?
This is really the decades old 'Chelsea-Hackney Line' rump converted as means for City Hall to grab as many suburban lines as possible away from National Rail operating companies. This line, as planned, will BTW, have no interchange with the Bakerloo or Jubilee Lines. It had always been policy to connect underground lines in central London where they cross.
And apparently, Stoke Newington won't get a station because it's too expensive to build one. I don't like it at all.
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@Billy
I certainly do understand your points about relief of overcrowding. But North London isn't alone in this. In fact, Haringey and Enfield already do very well as far as provision of railways. On the other hand, Hackney certainly doesn't, with no direct rail line at all to the West End (see the strength of service on bus routes 38 & 73) - apart from of course, a station at Manor House, geographically Hackney, but mostly serving Haringey.
As you say, these extensions are not cheap and I seriously think the money would be better spent on a branch through Central Hackney to Leytonstone (providing double the service to destinations north of Leytonstone) rather than a branch off on a tangent to New Southgate. And while I understand the local aspirations, to spend so much money for the provision of a 'once in summer' trip to Ally Pally, is not really a go-er.
I've never disputed the necessity 'Lea Valley line' part of CR2 and I'm quite at ease with that idea. That alone will immediately free up space on the Victoria Line and further along, the Piccadilly Line, as there will be fewer interchange passengers at Tottenham Hale.
As regards 'flow', passenger journeys are like water, they always take the route of least resisitance. The best example of this that I can give, is building water channels on the beach as a child. The more channels you build, the less flow and the channels dry up. This is the reason, that I disapprove so much of the New Southgate link. And also because the Thameslink service on the GN Line hasn't yet come on tap and will certainly change travelling patterns with it's much increased service.
I can also offer another city railway as an example of what I mean. München, a city I know very well (lived there for ten years), has in relation to it's population, an extremely good rail network U- & S-Bahn. Of course, I accept that all cities are different, nevertheless on München's lines U3 (orange) and U6 (blue) you can see a line/situation exactly like the proposed Crossrail 2 - SW > N & NW. The northern branch of the U3, just like the New Southgate branch of CR2, wasn't part of the original planning and was only added when the city was awarded the 1972 olympic games, in order to provide a service to the Olympic Stadium. Anyway, until the present day, the passenger levels on this branch have never been as high as elsewhere, because they continue to use and prefer direct routes to the centre with interchanges, rather than the roundabout route. In fact the line needed to be extended to increase usage, but actually still really only syphons off the flow.
Your comments on a Stoke Newington /Stamford Hill station are pretty chauvinistic .. it's alright for Tottenham to get all these lines, but not other areas. Strategically for London as a whole, I stand by my opinion that this New Southgate branch is an expensive no-no.
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