Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Cost of Garden Waste Collections Nationally
This was on the BBC web site earlier and I thought it was interesting.
Take aways include:
- Cost of Garden waste collections charged to residents nationally is around £74m
- Something like half of local authorities are now charging residents for green waste collection
- Average costs in any one area is £42.40 per annum (vs £75 for a large brown bin and £55 for a smaller brown bin in Haringey)
- Lowest are £18/yr in Momouthshire and £22/yr in Richmond
- Highest are £96/yr in Harlow and £86 in Arun (W.Sussex)
I think that puts Haringey at the upper end of the cost bracket.
I cannot remember how much Haringey were targeting to earn form this, was it £1-2m/pa? Anyone remember? I would be curious to know if they have met their target and if they have made this viable (ie, the income is sufficient to run this without the need for subsidy from Haringey or there being a net cost)
Tags for Forum Posts: garden waste collections
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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The user pays system is meant to lead to eventual reductions in council tax rates, as has happened in Hammersmith & Fulham
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Judging by the amount of garden waste dumped in the street any savings or income will be swallowed up in extra cleaning costs
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Walking down my street this year versus walking down my street last year
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Well, no actually. 12 months ago a bunch of us surveyed every street on The Ladder and surrounding streets so I had that to compare with
http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/a-rubbish-day-in-harrin...
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I thought that you asked about my evidence that garden waste dumping had increased so that’s what I posted about.
Some of the savings are based on the removal of free garden waste collection from the Veolia contract when it was renegotiated last year. The previous arrangement meant that garden waste collection was a routine part of the round and part of the general recycling collection so it was simple to estimate a cost to put into, and then out of, the overall contract sum. Dumped garden waste is now having to be collected from the street as it is reported, a far more costly service to provide as it’s not predictable and planned and means more single trips to the dumping sites and then to the waste disposal facility.
I cannot imagine Veolia continuing to absorb this as, in effect, they will be subsidising Haringey. As the amount of garden waste dumping has increased (in last year’s survey hardly any was spotted) the financial burden on Veolia will also increase and the pressure will be to renegotiate the contract which will eat up all or some of the projected savings
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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Not sure of your reasoning on this. Don't see how you can know the negotiation stance of both sides - it's held in commercial confidence so I imagine your basing it on an educated guess as you might very well have been in very similar public-private negotiations in your career.
I think our Council should follow central government advice (which is cross-party too) and not use commercial confidentiality in public procurement. The way the Tories suggest is to get the contractor to agree to this at the tender stage. So many of the stories about the whys and wherefores of Council decisions on this site seem to be just pegs for people to hang their hats on.
Because we don't know the truth, HoLers often simply think the worst, symptomatic of the general anti-Council bias I think the right wing has successfully bred into us. If we saw the Council as employed by us to work for us and directly responsible to us (which it is) then I think more people would contribute more to the decision-making process and many problems would become more starkly what they really are - our fault. If you employ someone to do something for you and they make a mess of it, it might be their fault, but it's your responsibility - you hired them -the buck stops with you , not them.
Whilst so many HoLers luxuriate in slagging off the Council and cynically assume even wholly positive stories are spin, we're shooting ourselves in the foot if you ask me. Opening-up the process (and getting Council Officers to make the facts clear) would allow us an informed debate. That informed debate would see us achieve more with fewer resources.
That's the meat in the sandwich - if the person on the Clapham Omnibus spends their penny of attention versed in an accurate picture, we're quids in :)
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I worked on the waste contract in another London Borough (also Veolia) a few years ago. The contracts are very similar in all London boroughs - one of the things I did was to see what was happening elsewhere.
I don’t make a habit of slagging off Haringey but I do see the disadvantages of banking on short terms savings rather than long term efficient services which are cost effective and properly serve community needs.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Rather a lazy assumption to make Chris that “HOLers” are inherently anti-council (some are, some aren’t, some work for the council), do not base their comments on experience or information received, and that we are displaying “right-wing” bias if we report what we see and try to engage our councillors in the process of solving those problems.
I think people like me and (if I may be so bold to presume) Michael see ourselves rather in the role of “critical friend”. In the things I am interested in doing, I spend time with council officers who I generally find to be open and engaged with their roles but often hampered by money, lack of time and yes, I’ll say it, tedious politicking by those elected to manage them. Some of whom like to show the same lazy assumptions about the residents political leanings I see in this post.
I have been campaigning on and off about litter, waste collection and bins on and offline for nigh on ten years. (Michael probably longer). It’s part of a bigger picture of environmental injustice which disproportionately affects the poorer members of our community who have a right to expect clean streets and green spaces, regular bin service, clean air, and action on fly tippers. The effect of a degraded environment on people’s mental and physical wellbeing is well documented.
I’m not about to stop demanding environmental justice just because a new administration (with a few familiar faces) which purports to be more grassroots has got itself elected.
I also happen to think that those who are worth their salt wouldn’t want me to.
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Ouch Liz I didn't expect to be called out - my opinion is based on years and years reading HoLers views on a wide range of topics.
Where views are expressed on HoL, very few praise the Council yet many criticise, n'est-ce pas? My view is sincerely held, meant to criticise people who almost automatically hate on the council - is that not clear? I don't consider the Admin presence when evaluating what I think people generally think because Admins are not relevant to it (except in restraining obscenity etc) and that's as it should be. Admins do not mediate views expressed here, it's all 'raw'.
I know you and many others do great stuff and think you're all wonderful. I'm ambitious though - however good we are, things can only get better. The main problem I see is apathy. I think that indifference is fuelled by a false impression that the Council are incompetent, with lots of bandwagonners jumping at any chance to reinforce that pernicious view. Helps to mask the real missed opportunity; to get more involved.
Like to see that change - the more eyes on the prize...
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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"my opinion is based on years and years reading HoLers views on a wide range of topics"- your opinions are yours of course, but they can still be wrong. I have the opinion that in this case, they are.
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I’ve been here since the beginning Chris and I do think that credit is given where credit is due e.g. Harringay Festival, libraries staff, schools, nature conservation and the people who try to maintain our parks in the face of fierce cuts, pressure to monetise and develop them.
Some community outreach is good (Travel), some frankly dire (consultation processes). There is incompetence, Chris, whether you like it or not some of it to the point of actually harming the community it is supposed to serve (I am basing this on evidence from volunteer work I’ve done with residents on benefits, council tax and debt collection not opinion). I am more Pollyannaish than most but I’m not wilfully blind.
Haringey can do better. They can learn from neighbouring councils, from successful projects in other parts of the country. They can admit when they’ve got things wrong and they can be less reactive and more proactive. I’m not holding my breath though.
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Thanks Liz - too right - the Council are very far from perfect and could be so much better in so many ways.
All I'm really saying is let's accept responsibility for Council (in)competence. Do something about it - get involved, give your view.
Surely we can agree that the more the community get involved, the better?
But can we also accept that its' the community's fault if they stand idly by?
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