Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Wightman Empty & Getting Peopled
On a quick trot down to Turnpike Lane I thought again how pleasant it is to see people out on the street. Click each picture for a clearer version.
Tags for Forum Posts: traffic, wightman bridge, wightman bridge closure
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Ian and Michael, you're both using utilitarian reasoning but I don't think the calculation is straightforward either way.
On the one hand you have the wellbeing of say 10,000 people who live, work, go to school, cycle, walk or run on Wightman or one of the rung roads. I'd say their health (e.g. pollutants), safety (accidents), environment (noise), cost of living (e.g. Michael's double glazing) etc. are strong arguments for closing Wightman. Plenty of other residential streets have been gated, cul-de-sacked, etc. (not just the Gardens and Hermitage, but plenty of areas in Tottenham, Wood Green, Crouch End, pretty much everywhere in London in fact) and successfully improved the quality of life of their residents; why shouldn't Wightman and the rungs be allowed to enjoy the same?
On the other hand you have (a) the interests of say 30,000 drivers and bus users each day (not sure how good a guess that is at the actual number, and some of them are included in the above 10,000) whose journey times will be lengthened or have to be made at a less convenient time if Wightman is closed PLUS (b) the wellbeing of people who live, work etc. on Green Lanes, Turnpike Lane, Endymion Road, probably several other roads, including some much further away, who will see increased congestion, noise, pollutants etc. because of the displaced and retarded drivers.
If only John Stuart Mill were still alive!
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Excellent summary Joe. As much as I hate the word the solution has to be holistic and consider the broad implications of ideas. For me, that is exactly what has not happened because the approach has been either "Here's a problem. Let's fix it and not worry to much about the impact". Or "Here's a problem and it's too hard to deal with so we'll ignore it"
I honestly don't know what the best long term solution is but I think there are two overiding principles
- things cannot remain as they are
- the needs of people living in an area have to take priority -
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Ah, if we are going to talk economics...
Vehicle drivers derive a benefit from being able to use certain roads. Maybe they get them to their destination quicker. I wanted to link back to MillerRD's post, but cannot, but he said (while pointing our many Ladder residents appeared to be approaching this in a purely selfish NIMBY manner with no hint of irony) "My wife has had over 30 minutes added each way to her daily drive to Islington".
So, Miller RD's wife's return journey to Islington (which I cycle through regularly, and for which I believe pubic transport will serve relatively well) is reduced by 1 hour each day by having the Ladder open to through traffic as it eases traffic flows locally.
Economics will tell us there can be externalities that impact those other than to whom a potential benefit may accrue. Michael has to suffer higher levels of pollution, or has to invest his cash/holiday fund in bigger and better doors and windows for example. Taking the impact further, and (possibly) to an extreme; Perhaps the community he lives in is diminished in some way by the fact that vehicles contribute to community severance, people are less willing or able to know their near neighbours, older and more vulnerable people have less local support, children do not play on the street, they are kept inside and watching TV or playing on screens where it is safe, they are less fit, less prepared for life outside the home, the lower quality of social fabric means criminality is less willing or able to be challenged, drugs are dealt openly, homes burgled to pay for habits, people mugged, people exposed to higher air pollution levels suffer, and perhaps some die... And so it goes.
The point is, the people not in their car are getting a bum deal, as the benefits often do not accrue to them.
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Permalink Reply by Ian on
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Jessica, thanks for the correction but I may slip up again given I have been saying ladders for 10 years but I will try my best in future post. You express an emotional connection to the ladder but more importantly than ladder/ladders your views about the permament closure of the road would be more beneficial.
Let no one get me wrong, I would like nothing better than road closures with kids playing on the streets and knocking balls into gardens with ladder house owners complaining that they should play in the park and not knock balls into my garden.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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You have probably thought of this Jessica but Wightman will have to be officially closed to ALL traffic, otherwise you will get kamikaze motorbikes ( oh, and other makes too ) cutting a swathe through the celebrants.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Ian, a few years ago, an irate contributor on this website sharply criticised something I'd posted and suggested I read the Danish architect/urbanist Jan Gehl. Which I did of course. Different suggestions and critiques from other people further widened my horizons.
I don't always agree with everything Michael Anderson says, but surely he's right that we should be looking for and discussing ways to try making city life better. Ways which benefit as many people as possible.
Okay, London isn't Copenhagen, but aren't there things we can and should be learning from cities which plan - steadily and successfully - to change how people get around? With many more walking and biking, and taking trams? Crucially don't we need a change of mindset?
And perhaps that should include grabbing the opportunity to experiment?
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Permalink Reply by MillerRD on
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Thought I would supplement these beautiful photos of Wightman with one from green lanes this afternoon. Not sure how many "commuting rat runners" contributed to this? Maybe local people going about there Saturday business?
Just to head off those incredibly witty remarks that "I am the traffic" it was taken having a stroll down from Turnpike Lane after a rather fantastic lunch at Gilbert Scott's. - Attachments:
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IMAG0274.jpg, 2.7 MB
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What a nightmare. I wonder if it would help if the bus lanes were in force 24 hours a day. When I came down on the bus it had to keep pushing into the stream of traffic because of parked vehicles, which can't be helping.
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That does look pretty awful but it wouldn't look out of place any other Saturday when Wightman Road was open.
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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I have just been part of that traffic queue - it was worse than 'usual' but not quite another dimension - it took about 15 minutes from West Green Rd to St Anne's.
I very much agree that the bus lanes should be 24/7 - not only for the obvious reason that it would allow buses to move but also it was very clear that creating 2 lanes of traffic that is then forced back into one lane (at Colina Rd junction) was creating an entirely artificial bottleneck.
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