Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Traffic: Thoughts, Problems, Solutions
I have been on HoL for many years but I have been stunned recently by how many posts there have been on traffic and traffic related issues in the last 3-6 months. In terms of issues of the day for our community this is clearly huge!
I was just posting on a different thread and it occurred to me that we need to try to draw together some of our collective knowledge and experience in order to try to do more than collectively shout into the internet to vent our spleens.
As you may be aware the council have taken a pretty brave step in recognising the collective mismanament of our roads in the last 20 years. The sustainability of piecemeal closing or alteration of the road traffic network so that traffic is concentrated on an ever diminishing number of roads to the detriment of those communities and the political myopia (indeed active intervention) that has allowed Wightman Road to become a defacto trunk road has been highlighted by the closure over such a long term of the railway bridge on Wightman.
This is the issue the Green Lanes Traffic Study will aim to address. Its first Stakeholder Group meeting is to be help on Thursday 9th June. This is one of the forums through which residents will be able to feedback their views. There are several organisations that will be part of the Steering Group (see the Terms of Reference doc for the membership as of May, this may change). If you care about what is happening, you should feed your views in through the various members that may best represent your area, Gardens, Hermitage, Woodlands Park, Ladder, HoL, Wightman Rd, etc, or your councillor.
In the mean time I wanted try to do three things. I want to draw together people's experiences in order to:
1- Hear the anecdotal thoughts occurring to you.
- I have head people say they are now happier sending their kids from the northern part of the Ladder to South Harringay for swimming lessons
- People have remarked that there is less fly tipping
- It seems the traffic that is moving up and down the Ladder (rung roads and Wightman) is moving in a far more considerate way- its less aggressive
- Traffic on GL and Turnpike is more aggressive, blocking crossings
2- Try to frame the myriad of problems, before and after the closure.
- 120k vehicles a week on Wightman (pre closure)
- Houses being shaken to pieces by HGVs (pre closure)
- Inability of traffic to turn out of Turnpike Lane in the GL leading to congestion (post closure)
- Busses not moving on GL (post closure)
- Increased congestion on GL and the time taken to get from A to B (post closure)
3- Identify solutions and ideas (however nutty)
- Close Wightman completely
- Introducing a pricing mechanisms for vehicle using local roads
- Better traffic management interventions to get folks out of cars in going to their places of worship or taking their kids to school
- Improved or altered road infrastructure to allow traffic to run more freely and not be held at pinch points
- Clear parking out of the bus route on GL
In the ideas one or more of you will throw out will be part of the solution, and while the Stakeholder Group is not a decision making body, at least this is a forum where these ideas can be heard!
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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(comment originally made on
Justin, I quite agree that the traffic issue for our community is huge and that we need to pool our knowledge and experience to try and achieve real change. Could you tell me please how to get in touch with the Gardens representative before your meeting on Thursday? (I am new to HoL - we came to Harringay a year and a half ago - so please forgive my ignorance.)
Perhaps I have just not seen the posts, but has anyone yet mentioned Salisbury Road? Though minuscule in comparison with Wightman Road, it is every bit as destroyed by traffic as Wightman was before the recent pleasant changes. And every bit as deserving of peace and clean air.
The traffic lights at the junction with Green Lanes ensure that vehicles are not just passing through, but frequently stationary and perfectly positioned to belch lung-destroying particles through our windows.
The buses (341) are not hybrids and their fume-belching is thus continuous.
And, aside from the engine noise and the fumes, there is the music from the stationary cars: loud, endless, sleep-slaughtering. (Is this just me?)
You say, quite rightly, that 'traffic is concentrated on an ever diminishing number of roads': would it not be possible to share the Gardens' traffic burden a little more equally? Cleveland Gardens and Warwick Gardens, as a result I assume of some earlier attempt to sort out the traffic problems of Harringay, are barred to through traffic from St. Ann's Road and everything that wants to get to Green Lanes south of the Salisbury pub, everything, comes up Salisbury Road.
If it proves too unpopular to re-open those two streets, what about simply making the last stretch of St. Ann's Road a 'normal' road to its junction with Green Lanes, with the possibility of turning left and right at the top? Am I not right in thinking that it used to be that way relatively recently? The current layout, though well intentioned I'm sure, is just absurd.
Having done that, perhaps Salisbury Road could also have a delightful card-controlled barrier system in place, returning it to some semblance of a residential street. I don't think there are as many residential buildings on that last stretch of St. Ann's as there are on Salisbury Road, are there? If I am wrong and St. Ann's were to feel as aggrieved as Salisbury does now, what about some sort of sharing? Three months on, three months off? It's a thought.
I would welcome your thoughts.
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Permalink Reply by Deborah on
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I fully support clearing parking out of Green Lanes bus route. For financial, environmental and social reasons, I don't own a car and it's very frustrating being held up on the bus just so that other people can park in front of the shops. The Arena Shopping Centre should also be car-free (other than cabs). I like the idea of reintroducing trams as well as buses.
For me, tackling traffic comes at the problem from the wrong angle. The biggest help would be for public transport to be much cheaper, easier and safer so people have a realistic alternative. For example, I know people who have to drive their kids to school because they've been moved out of the area and can't afford the cost of buses or trains back and forth. One friend was facing a total cost of £35 a day on minimum wage and the council housing department advised him to get a car.
For this reason, I don't agree with paying on top of road tax to use certain roads. Like the congestion charge, this is regressive as it allows those who can afford the charges to use clearer roads, while those with less money have fewer options.
The trains from Harringay Station never have enough carriages and are heaving in the mornings and evenings. I pay huge amounts to have my nose in someone else's armpit. In my view, no one under 16 or over 60 should have to pay for the tube or train. Also, there should be people at Harringay Station in the afternoons and evenings, both in the ticket office and at kiosks on the platform to help people feel safer. Plus, conductors on buses and quieter trains. I'd also like to see a slope fitted at Harringay (like at Green Lanes Station) so that people with mobility problems, bikes and pushchairs can use it more easily - and a lift at Manor House, where the stairs are treacherous and impossible if you have mobility problems or a pushchair.
But people also have to take personal responsibility and ask why they have a car. You really don't need one in London. We go all over the country on public transport with our children, using a Family Railcard and local family bus passes. So many routes have been reduced by private bus/train companies that this isn't always easy or cheap - sometimes we have to take a cab or walk the last bit. If we were all serious about stopping environmental damage, poor health and social isolation, we'd make sure getting everyone onto public transport was a national and local priority.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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London's last mayor was more intent on vanity schemes like bringing back buses with conductors and buying expensive and untested vehicles to London, rather than concentrating on mobility essentials, like more lifts at stations, as well as step free access.
I'm always appalled when in London (the U.K.) at how high above platform level some (most) of the trains still are. All German cities (where I live), have rolling programmes of adding lifts to older stations.
Cities like München already have 80% barrier free stations, 100% Buses and trams http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/fileadmin/media/Dateien/plaene/pdf/Barri...
Berlin is also well on the way (by 2020) to 100% Barrier free too. 80% of stations have lifts or ramps .
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I am still firmly of the belief that the Uberisation of motoring is just around the corner. I have personally been agitating for the closure of Wightman Rd, just to wind you all up, for years and now I think it's more important that we prepare for this. Sell your cars now before the price drops so precipitously you are left with something you have to pay to get rid of.
Just looking at an ATM yesterday morning I thought it was odd that the screen still presented the same options to me as it did 20 years ago, £10, £20, £30... etc. That surely implies no inflation for things purchased with cash? Does it mean something else? Well compared to the 50p to 150p bus fare inflation in the last 20 years it struck me as odd.
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Christian Wolmar thinks we should bring back the trams... That might be something that can compete with the driverless Uber of our future.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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XX, I sympathise with you about Salisbury. It does suffer.
I'm not sure if the GRA include Salisbury Road within their area, but you can find the links you need on HoL's Wiki.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Rearranging the St Anns junction to allevate the Salisbury (and Warham) traffic would be good provided it doesn't just send Warham's excessive traffic up other ladder rungs - most likely Allison and Seymour. As I said elsewhere, the objective has to be an overall reduction not just an equitable distribution.
I did also wonder if something could be done with the end of St Anns to allow buses to pull in there (rathet than outside Tesco), to help with traffic flow. The pub would lose its plaza, but would help the traffic flow on GL. Choices, choices!
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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You're quite right Joe. It's the Law of Unintended Consequences. That why I think the opportunity presented by the area wide traffic study is so important.
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That's great news XX. The attached should give you what you need. As to group membership, obviously it's not in my gift, but for what it's worth I'd support it. You'll need to approach Cllr Ahmet Peray. Let me know if I can help at all.
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(Comment originally made by HoL member on in reply to High's on - reposted under HoL name following member's departure from site)
Hugh,
Can you tell me when the traffic study ends?
I am attempting to set up a Salisbury Road Residents Association.
If I am successful, will we be able to join the steering group?
Many thanks,
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Salisbury Road is awful, and it is certainly one that we need to look at. The way traffic flows up that road and into Warham is merciless.
The junction at St Anns (with three entry and exit points plus lights) is bonkers. I love that the Salisbury has a nice new piazza to put tables out onto, but I am not sure that is the best use of that space if it is to the detriment of folks living on roads like Salisbury. This is something we really have to look closely at.
I will ask Andy Newman (or the relevant GRA rep) when I see then tonight if they cover Salisbury Road, I doubt it though...
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