Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Traffic study workshop
As mentioned over here the first of the traffic study workshops was tonight.
There were a bunch of posters presenting various options and you could put a post-it note on them saying what you thought.
Photos of the posters are in a zip file here.
The workshop is repeated this Saturday so if you have any comments tell someone who's going along.
To make it easier and for those not invited along to the workshops here's all the proposed options in a survey. Add your choices and I'll forward along all the answers.
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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At the workshops they said the next stage was a public consultation across the entire study area with less than 10 options. Less than 10 options across the entire study area seems stupid to me - thats just two choices of changes for the entire Wightman / Ladder / Willoughby Rd area right? And they are saying thats going to happen in Jan /Feb.
How does that fit in with what you were asking for Hugh?
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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If it's ten alternatives, that's not a bad size of shortlist, if it's a cluster of ten complimentary measures, then that's not what I had in mind. The combination of short, medium and long term will also be a factor for me too.
Whatever is presented, they need to be viable solutions that could realistically see the light of day in a reasonable time frame.
Why, did you have a number in mind?
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They've always said right from the start of this that there would be a public consultation at the end of this study, I thought you were saying you had asked for some more public engagement before that consultation happened, right?
The study area is across Wightman, the Ladder, Green Lanes, the Gardens, Hermitage, St Anns, Chestnuts, and Woodlands. A final consultation with just 10 choices across that entire area can't really provide much choice can it. For example, from this survey the top choices for the Ladder / Green Lanes area are:
LA-06 More pedestrian accesses to Finsbury Park
LA-07 Continue Harringay Passage south to Finsbury Park
GL-20 Make Green Lanes more green
Who would be happy that at the end of this long expensive traffic study exercise what we get is a new gate to Finsbury Park? Along with an investigation into extending the Harringay Passage to Findsbury Park that will will turn out as being impractical as it requires buying up parts of the back yards or private residential land, building a new very expensive bridge over the railway tracks that would massively overlook private houses and gardens, and going through Railway Fields who are dead set against such access. And then giving a good junk of the possible £350k funding to the TA to put more planters along the shops to green up Green Lanes?
Where is the intelligent filtering of options? Where is the traffic expert analysis that was to develop and assess options and to test them against traffic models and then present us with a range of tested options that would improve traffic equitably in the area?
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In the past public consultation has meant presenting a fait accompli that they can comment on but have little chance of influencing. (Remember?) What I was asking for is for the public to be presented with a range choices that they genuinely can influence.
The whole thing is not in my gift, Ant. I can seek to influence the best I can, but I can't guarantee any result - nonetheless, I am trying to ensure the maximum possible opportunity for people to have an input.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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I was thinking the same thing - it needs to be <10 alternative packages. I think there's a danger we end up with a shortlist of ad hoc individual options which, even if they were all implemented, would not provide a holistic solution to the issues. Somehow the options need to be collated into packages which are (mostly) mutually exclusive alternatives to each other - I assume that is what the consultants will do next?. Each package needs to address as many issues as possible on the assessment framework e.g. make walking and cycling safer and more attractive, provide a reliable transport network but which discourages unnessary journeys and reduces toxic fuel emissions and noise, provide a reasonable amount of parking for shops and restaurants etc.
For example:
Option 1 Package includes:
- Close Wightman Road similar to the permeable filtering measures in place during the bridgeworks
- Remove parking and remove, relocate or reconfigure specific junctions, traffic lights, busstops, to ensure a reasonable flow of traffic on GL
Notes: this option particularly addresses improving streetscape and urban realm, making active transport modes safer and more attractive, but may reduce the reliability of the transport network particularly in the short term if funds are not available immediately to make all the necessary improvements to GL flow.
Option 2 Package includes:
- Make Wightman Road one-way southbound, with a 2-way cycle track
- Prevent right-hand turns out of rung roads onto GL, and right-hand turns from GL into a rung road, either by a median kerb on GL or else CCTV enforcement
- New roundabout junction at GL/Williamson allowing residents driving south on GL to doubleback and enter their rung
- Similar to Option1, removal of parking and remove, relocate or reconfigure specific junctions, traffic lights, busstops, to ensure a reasonable flow of traffic on GL
Notes: this option does not address the streetscape/urban realm issues as effectively as Option 1, but might be seen as a compromise solution favouring the reliability of the transport network.Option 3 Package includes:
- Keep Wightman two-way but remove pavement parking to discourage traffic, and prevent right-hand turns to reduce ratrunning.
- etc.Option 4
etc.Once we have a mutually exclusive set of options the next round of consultation could take the form of a preferential vote, allowing the option preferred by the majority to be identified.
Within each Option there might be short, medium and long-term features. Low-cost/high benefit items to be implemented in the short-term, followed by low-cost/medium benefit and medium-cost/high benefit in the medium and long-term.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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That's what I assumed the options would be too; packages of measures to address the issues rather than 10 specific interventions.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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It's a shame that the ANPR technology used to do the survey cannot be deployed to charge vehicles not registered in Haringey for traversing through the borough. There would then be no need to do anything with the traffic.
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Indeed, John. I've been on tat track since the Spring. More recently I've been speaking with the folks who run the London Congestion charge and it seems that there my be legal restrictions relation to how ANPR can be used on public roads. Am waiting to hear back from them soon.
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Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1 on
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I assume you'd want this rolled out everywhere, I can't see any reason why Haringey would be a special case. Introducing toll roads everywhere but your local borough would be a seismic change for transport in London.
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All good by and large but one point--most "rat running" that I see from the Gardens to Wightman Road on my Ladder street (one way to Wightman) are that 4 of 5 vehicles make a left turn onto Wightman so as to cut through to Stroud Green/Finsbury Park via Endymion Road.
No right hand turns off of my street and nothing else wouldn't change the status quo too much.
If Wightman gets the treatment like it had over the summer I will have my offer on a house ready to go as the value will shoot up a lot. This would solve all problems for residents as no one would cut through the Ladder anymore.
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I was going to say that if you're heading right off of Warham Rd from South Tottenham, you're much better off going the other side of the Salisbury and Harringay/Colina but google disagrees. I wonder if google is not allowing for the fact that it's quite difficult to get through the Salisbury Rd lights.
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