Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Costa coffee hogging up the pavement
Bit of a rant here. What is the story with Costa Coffee taking up more than half of the pavement with signage and tables? Is that actually allowed? Check the attached photo.
My partner earlier today was pushing our son in a buggy and had to stop and wait for a people walking in a single in order to get around their signage and barriers. She went in and complained but they never bothered to move them. I went back in later when i saw they were still taking up more than half of the pavement. The girl didnt believe me and she smuggly told me to show her. Which i did, and they moved them.
Anyone know what the law is with this? How much space can they actually legally take? We'll need to walk in the gutter soon.
Tags for Forum Posts: Costa, coffee
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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John. I have raised this with John Forde, he works hard to keep out public spaces, but there are limits. One of the worst offenders is the guy at the bottom of Umfrevrille. I reckon he just takes the micky, you have barely space for one person to get past at times. John, I know, has been active in trying to get this guy to reduce how far out into the footpath he pushes his goods out. Basically, traders can rent space on the footpath to do this, but only to a certain distance. John's response with this individual is to tell him he will withhold his licence unless he complies. I think it had some success, but I went past the other day and his stuff was just as far out into the street it seemed. It is not actually clear how far they can go out.
Costa is one that gets my goat, not because of the barrier and chairs, but the bloody sign that always pushes another foot out into the footpath. It sounds petty but it should be not go any further than the barrier they have.
When they had the Green Lanes regeneration I made point about what I call 'cannoning', ie the pinch points in our street that makes it impossible to pass efficiently or (sometimes) safely. This is not totally down to the traders. I like the street feel of Harringay, with folks in the street, traders with their wares out, but the paths are not big enough or designed for their current use. I made a number of proposals during the regeneration about cleaning up our streets including removing or relocating a large amount of the street furniture to places that made more sense- and in some cases getting rid of it entirely (such as the blinking pee stinking telephone boxes that serve absolutely no utility what so ever unless you are a crack smoker (especially that one by the post office that is always covered in adverts and which affords massive anonymity- and yes, I did see a guy smoking crack in there recently)).
As lot of this street furniture compounds this problem as it adds to the narrowing/cannoning effect. The images below are from my submission a couple of years ago, and much of the wares many folks have now push even further out into the street than this.
Here is an idea... Links here to the current traffic study, and something that could potentially benefit everyone, including the traders:
- First there is a need to have those little brass bobbles in the pavement so it is clear how far out traders can go. No arguing with those.
- As part of their 'right to rent' pavements space, traders sign a 'responsibility charter'
- This charter has them agreeing to a £200 on the spot, cash out of the till fine every time they stray over the bobbles. They can be reported by resident (using photos) or this could be assessed during on the spot inspections by officials.
- They also agree not to put their rubbish into the streets, not to throw crap into the road (as I have seen) and (radical 21st century) actually sweep the outside of their shops daily, and deposit rubbish in a bin, not into the road/gutter
- The fines go into a Green Lanes fund managed perhaps by the traders association- this can be used for a variety of good causes, including supporting our local schools!
- (This is the good bit!)
- As part of the GL traffic study we go radical. We propose narrowing Green Lanes by 2 meters. (I sense muesli and Greek yoghurt being splutter across people's Observers as I type this)
- Parking on both sides is taken off GL, each Ladder or Garden road along GL offers up 4-5 parking spaces near GL for free or pay and display/ mixed use to compensate for loss of parking
- The bus lane is kept clear of parking and allows busses to flow
- Emergency vehicles can move through even congested traffic as vehicles are not hemmed on on both sides by parked cars, they can move to clear a lane for the emergency services (which they cannot do now!)
- If we can, we segregate space for a dedicated cycle lane(s)
- (The even better bit)
- We reevaluate where all the current street furniture is, and get rid of the stuff we do not need, or better site what we do so it does not just take up pavements space. Especially those darn phone boxes (6-7 from the bridge to the Post Office... We just do not need them!
- Result, narrower GL, parking off the main high street, clear allocation of responsibilities and rights, wider pavements, removal of superfluous street furniture and more opportunity for the street feel that many enjoy to evolve.
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Is not like I have thought about this at all, can you tell.
As a starter. Does anyone know how I can find out how many times the phone boxes on GL have actually been sued in the past 5 years to make a call. I will go find out if you have any suggestions...
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Permalink Reply by John Fogarty on
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haha
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Phone boxes don't come under planning law in the same way that other developments do. It actually really difficult to have them removed. The reason they stand there as substitute pissors is that, even though they make a loss in terms of use as a phone box, they make a mint from advertising. Phone koisks are exempt from many of the rules around advertising consent so they are a fantastic little earner for BT etc.
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No, I get that Michael, I believe there are even statutory obligations (on BT) for them to be there. So, I thought lets find out what social purpose they serve, and I am happy to chase this down!
I am just not sure where I would start, so any advice welcome.
Its just that we do not need 6-7 of them! Really, when was the last time any of you made a phone call from a box? In fact, anyone know without checking what the minimum call charge is these days?
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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on
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In the late 1980s I was responsible in BT for ensuring compliance with the regulation governing the removal of public phone boxes. The rules had been fixed when politicians were still concerned that the privatised BT might do away with loss making boxes in bulk. We needed permission from the regulatory body to close a box. The responsible body now is Ofcom and their Web site has stuff about it. It still seems to be focused on controlling BT initiated changes rather complaints from the public. Best start by asking BT to close them or move them. Note that not all boxes are BT'S.
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Aha, I forgot we have a resident expert goat keeper phone expert in our midst! Thanks Dick, I will see what I can find there.
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Here is another example I came back from holiday to find at the bottom of Pemberton. Devran have put a heap of tables on the footpath. I like it, but look at what is stuck in the middle of the footpath. The based of the car parking ticket machine that has not been removed- why it is so far in the footpath in the first place is beyond me.
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Went kneecaps into it last week while I was trying to make way for a buggy.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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I didn't manage to take a picture (too busy pokemon hunting) but coming home on the bus today I spotted a fruit and veg shop just north of Costa with their usual wooden stand thingy, crates in front of that, then a second line of crates in front of those AND then more crates stacked up on the road side of the pavement next to a lamp post.
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Tighter again if someone was sitting in the chair!
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Very informative! Thanks Justin
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