Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Wood Green getting crossrail 2
Tags for Forum Posts: crossrail 2
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bob Lindsay-Smith on
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Thank you Kate, for a good summary of the situation.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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A report out today by the National Infrastructure Commission (NIC):
(a) urges Crossrail 2 to go ahead urgently and
(b) recommends delaying the northwestern part to New Southgate:
The NIC suggested improving its affordability by delaying the north-western branch to New Southgate, which could reduce costs in the 2020s by around £4 billion.
(Midlands Express & Star).The unwisdom of the Council's preferred option (#4) for Wood Green is now further exposed. Not only is Wood Green unlikely to get Crossrail 2 in any event, the boosting of this unrealistic "option" may contribute to an overall delay.
The pushing of this route for no better reason than to make Wood Green more attractive to property developers has led to confusion and uncertainty. While the Council sees it as supporting its property development, the Infrastructure Commission says:
The case for deferring the north-western branch of the Crossrail 2 tunnel, serving Seven Sisters, Turnpike Lane, Alexandra Palace and New Southgate, merits particular scrutiny. The core benefit provided by this branch is its relief of the Piccadilly line, through the connection at Turnpike Lane, but this is less crowded than the Victoria and Northern lines in the early 2030s, as it will have more recently benefited from new capacity through the New Tube for London programme. The branch does offer some additional relief for the Victoria line, but many of these benefits would be likely to be delivered in any case through the link to the Victoria line at Tottenham Hale. Its impact in terms of unlocking new housing is also much smaller than from any other major part of the Crossrail 2 scheme, as shown in the table below.
Transport for a World City (p.45)
Media: Midlands Express & Star
Not sure if this will be highlighted at MIPIM at Cannes next week.
CDC
Haringey Councillor
Liberal Democrat Party
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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No Clive, however much anti-Haringey Labour spin you might want to put on this, the NW Branch to from Seven Sisters to New Southgate has always been a no-no. I've been saying this for a long time now. Even with a station at Turnpike Lane, the benefits/usage don't/won't ever justify the cost. In fact, the council should be congratulated on trying to get more investment into the Borough than was ever going to be possible.
As I've written before, a Crossrail connection on to the Lea Valley line will happen, but I doubt that Harringay or Southgate will ever be part of it.
Let's us also be spared it being called the Philip, Charles or Camilla line too !
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Stephen, if you're right—that a NW Branch for X-rail-2won't ever happen—then doesn't this
In fact, the council should be congratulated on trying to get more investment into the Borough than was ever going to be possible.
… amount to a waste of time, money and effort?
At MIPIM in Cannes next week, the Council will be trying to court sovereign wealth funds and their like. But would-be big investors can read the Internet also.
The realistic thing to do would be for the Council to withdraw their misguided Preferred Option for Wood Green (Option 4). It's contingent on Crossrail-2 having a station there—and that's now less likely to happen than ever, something about which we might agree.
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No, I think that a policy of taking the investment money while it's going was probably the correct thing to do. But if someone had taken the time to read what was being said and written in transport circles, then it soon would have become apparent that the NW branch was a ludicrous idea.
The geography of the line and the branch, just go against all ideas and experience of well thought out transport planning and policy. But I do fully understand why Harringay residents would be positive to the idea of another available (railed) public transport alternative.
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Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on
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Councillor Kober interviewed on the Local news @ 10.30 last night saying that she thought it would be a big mistake if they cancelled the Turnpike Lane Wood Green ally pally extension,
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Both what?
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FPR can they postpone both options: yes.
That is, there wouldn't be a north-western line in Crossrail 2 at all, just the north-eastern one up the Lea Valley, to begin with.
And the report suggests if that choice is made, then a branch starting in Hackney and going east could be preferred to a north-western branch when that second branch line is built. Hence why Haringey is banging the drum as loud as it can.
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Both options put forward by TFL
FPR: only one 'option' was advanced by TfL (i.e. Turnpike Lane & Alexandra Palace). A great deal of number-crunching will have gone into their original, considered route.
A second route, dubbed an 'option' was put forward not by TfL, but by Haringey Council and this was to encourage property developers' interest in the Wood Green area. It's an example of a parochial vision within a bubble. TfL added it as a so-called option in order to humour a local council.
The whole northwestern spur (including both 'options') now look as though they will be postponed.
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What have you done with the comment admin?
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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What comment? Nothing touched by us here.
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Clive, The NW (New Southgate) branch was never likely to be approved.. with or without a Wood Green or Turnpike Lane Option. 'Never look a gift horse in the mouth' - Are you seriously saying that a LD run council wouldn't have also jumped on the CR2 development bandwagon? Of course they would have and similarly they would have not been able to deliver the NW extension.
Excuse me for feeling chuffed that the report has confirmed what I have been writing for months. The NW branch is/was never a viable concept and if in fact, in order to balance out the service on the line, a second Northern branch of CR2 is necessary, then a branch across the the Lea to Leytonstone, taking over one branch of the Central line (Leytonstone > Epping - capable of taking main-line size rolling stock) has always been a far better option, with a much wider reach than the New Southgate route, relieving as it does, both the Victoria and Central Lines east of the Lea.
Don't forget that a full Thameslink service will also be in service by then.