Council App to report stuff

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on October 20, 2015 at 12:19

Clive, the app I use doesn't ask you who you want to report it too. It just asks you to categorise the nature of the problem. I suppose it get doled out to the right people at their end.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on October 20, 2015 at 15:06

"I suppose it gets doled out to the right people ..."

Deciding who are the "right people"  depends on who frames the problem and how they frame it. And then, are they willing to learn and reframe, if and when the evidence suggests this is necessary and sensible?

I'm not confident that "digital by default" will achieve this. I suspect that better, longer lasting solutions will need a return to "human by default".

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on October 20, 2015 at 15:53

There are a couple of optionsAlan.

A very long and comprehensive list presented to us to categorise the problem. Don't know about you but I loathe these, especially on a tiny phone screen. Or

The person reporting to to have a through understanding of council structures and responsibilities. Don't really see why it should matter one jot to me as the person reporting if it's highways, housing or education who have responsibility for the pothole. I just want to sorted.

I worked on a system like this one for another local authority ages ago in its very early days of development and the reports did go to a human being, and I suspect that the same goes to for Haringay. A machine can't decide if the problem needs sorting as a matter of urgency or if won't cause too many problems and can go in a queue. And yes, people do get this wrong sometimes, as they are human. As for learning, the most common set up I came across was a massive database of every conceivable issue which matched up who dealt with resolving it. As staff got more and more experienced they added new issues and tweaked existing solutions, just as we all do in real life when we learn. Everyone had access to this information so they all benefitted from each other's experiences. I think that this database approach is pretty common for organisations who use a system like this one. We also had teams who understood the detail of really complex stuff like planning or licensing queries who staff could talk to when they needed advice on something they didn't normally come across.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on October 21, 2015 at 12:13

Thanks Michael. I'm not for a moment dismissing your own experience. If things go smoothly as you've described then the reporting online model works fine. As often it does.

In fact the description you give where more experienced people with additional skills are "pulled into" the assessment/framing process is along the lines proposed by management thinkers such as John Seddon.

It also matches some of my own past experiences where I was able to learn and draw from the knowledge and skills of my immediate bosses. Or from other members of my work team in the same office who valued collective informal discussion and pooling of experience; especially when team members were 'stuck' with a knotty problem.

That experience set me on a path to find out more about teams; co-operative and collective working; and group processes. Which also led me to a fair degree of scepticism and outright disbelief about the potential of databases, online working, "channel-shift" and so forth.  With their false promises that Call Centres, digital-by-default, and a laptop with Windows 10 will solve all problems. (In the process saving so much money that all we need in local government are a few consultants handing out contracts.)

Tony Blair famously saw a challenge for New Labour as:"ensuring that every child has access to a proper laptop computer". A bit like Mr Toad going "Poop Poop"  when he met a motor car, Tony reputedly fell in love with a laptop before he knew how to operate one.

If you haven't come across him before, tell me what you think of Theodore (Ted) Roszak's ideas back in 1986.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on October 21, 2015 at 12:48

Oddly, I once met John Seddon and have worked with his company Vanguard, so some of the philosophy must have rubbed off! I have some reservations about the Vanguard method but I think the underlying assumption it works on (concentrate on what people want, not how you're structured, and let staff just get on with it) is sound.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on October 21, 2015 at 12:55

Wasn't Roszak the chap who said that personal computers had no foreseeable future? Apart from that I know nothing about him. I'll have a read.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on October 21, 2015 at 22:38

I don't remember reading that. And I loaned or gave away the book a long time ago - so can't look it up. The link I gave is to a half-hour video from 1986, so you relax and watch it on your computer -or TV.

From the book I recall one criticism of personal computers - that you never finish buying one.  Someone is always selling you a newer faster upgrade!

In the video he challenges the idea that information storage and processing is the same as the judgement and wisdom of humans. He suggests that education should have less focus on computing, with:

"...  a curriculum that's a little more traditional, stayed closer to old-fashioned forms of literacy, and  [which]  sought to put children as gracefully and as early as possible in touch with the great ideas on which their culture is based."

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on October 21, 2015 at 22:46

I think you're right that increasingly data is seen as the be all and end all of an exercise. Data is only useful if you apply insight, thought and experience to it. Going back a bit on an early thread about Freedom of Information as it stands at the moment, simply providing stacks of numbers as a response doesn't do it. It's the meaning behind them and their application to an issue that provides real information.
Some of the debate around tax credits going on at the moment reminds me of the danger of data supremacy. The government say that the majority of people will be better off. While that's true a very substantial minority will not.

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on October 22, 2015 at 21:58

Thanks Michael. Hmm, I need to reflect more on what you've posted.

Permalink Reply by Philip on October 19, 2015 at 16:02

I'm backing Hugh on this one.despite some glitches it is quite effective. It also means I will report stuff that I otherwise wouldn't. .ie commercial bins overflowing, flytipping etc as its no joke trying to phone it in! I've recently moved to Enfield and miss it sorely!

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on October 19, 2015 at 18:12

Philip, I think it's unhelpful to see the issue as either/or.  There are tools and systems which do some jobs well. Clearly the app often works; and people see results and are pleased about that. Incidentally if we are focusing on clearing dumped rubbish then a significant part of the credit should go to Veolia.

While I'm being complimentary, let me mention Veolia's prompt and efficient collection of an old bedbase and mattress. I tell people it takes one phonecall to arrange and that's exactly what happened. They offered a date which fitted with delivery of our new bed, and they collected the old one exactly when they said they would - clearing away bits of wood frame as well.

Instead of a huge advert for Cllr JoeGo's absurd and unnecessary new logo on the side of Veolia trucks, I wish they'd put ads for the free fridge, mattress and bed collection services. Many streets might be spared some dumping.

To get back to the app, there is a problem when dumping "hotspots" become informally established. With piles of bags at street corners, near litter bins and even busstops, smelling, spilling and seeping onto the pavements. Or little corners and bits of walled green space used - in effect - as mini-skips.

Of course all this needs reporting. But efficient regular clearance turns this dumping into a "Third System" of leave-it-on-the-street. (Added to the collection from homes and businesses and "bring sites" like the Reuse & Recycling Centres.)  Efficient reporting and clearance can have the "perverse" outcome that it may ratify and validate dumping instead of challenging and changing it.

And, Hol-site-Admin, however much Clive Carter's comments may come across as knee-jerk LibDem auto-opposition, quite often he does have a valid point. The dead rat Clive mentions - there are live rats there too - is in pile of rubbish in a privately-owned yard behind a block of private flats.

I assume, Hol-Site-admin, that neither of us would like to live overlooking the sight and stink of it. Enforcement action by Haringey is long overdue.

I write that, making every allowance for the Council's forced staff reductions. And recognising the work and intelligent approach of our friend Cllr Stuart McNamara.  But he can't be everywhere; and has to work within a dysfunctional system.

A final point, if street cleaning becomes a far more reactive  system - by which I mean largely reacting to public calls, emails and tweets - there is a real danger that resources become skewed towards the areas where there are more people prepared (or able) to spend time sending those reports on their smartphones, computers etc.

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Permalink Reply by JoeW on October 19, 2015 at 23:14

I have used the app to report a dead cat by the side of the road a few months ago. I can't remember now why I downloaded the app in the first place, but I had it installed so all I had to do was take a photo using the app and hit submit and the report goes straight to the relevant Haringey department. I got a fairly prompt response asking for the location - I had assumed the app would log the location using GPS but it seems it wasn't accurate enough. Next time I'll make sure I include full details.

I felt a bit self-conscious taking the photo - I mean what kind of weirdo goes round taking a photo of a dead cat? I'm surprised someone didn't take a photo of me and send that to some other Haringey department (one staffed by men in white coats).

Generally I think it's a great app though, it saves me trying to find the relevant phone number and listen to muzak waiting to speak to someone, and I'd guess if sufficient people use it properly it gives Haringey a cost-effective way to improve service levels.

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