Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey in top 10 worst authorities in England for householder fly tipping - and it's got worse.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/env24-fly-tippi...
Tags for Forum Posts: Flytipping
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Now managed to open it. The "top" ten councils are
LA_Name Total Incidents Newham LB 67930 Enfield LB 31692 Haringey LB 31045 Southwark LB 26638 Manchester City Council 21449 Sheffield City Council MBC 18084 Liverpool City Council MBC 17882 Westminster City Council 17121 Birmingham City Council MBC 16186 Hounslow LB 15864 Why Haringey ranks so highly is open for those of you with a statistical bent to investigate but I first wondered was it related to deprevation (so not being able to afford paid for collection services)?. Kirklees (one of the most deprived areas in the country) is way down the list and Kensington and Chelsea are in the top 30 so not necessarily. Westminster is in the top 10 but has unique problems because of the huge daytime, night time and tourist populations so I think can be discouted.
I would be interesting to map against these councils who the waste contractor is and see if there is any correlation. Also to map against them the frequency of waste collection.
I wonder if it's more to do with having an effective enforcement regime?
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Yes, my first thoughts were that it's difficult to interpret this data. It seems unlikely that it's measuring the 'tippability' of boroughs on a like for like basis. I too wondered about the extent to which it's related to willingness to act.
(BTW, I was able to open the older spreadsheet, but not the latest Open Document format one. How did you get to open?)
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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Two other factors for reporting by council employees and the public: how easy is it for the public to report it, and how widely is it known that it can be reported.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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When I pointed out the council will collect rubbish for free if you request them to, someone once said to me that it could be linked to the fact that some folks are living somewhat below the radar. They do not want to engage with any official authority for fear it make them visible.
Interestingly Newham is off the chart- 4 times the 10th ranked Hounslow. Blimey.
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Newham and Haringey both have websites where, on the front page, there's a 'Report It' link for fly-tipping. Another factor, perhaps.
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The largest source of fly tipping in this part of Haringey is flats above shops where we regularly see bags of rubbish on the pavement with rat bites. The bags are supposed to be collected by Veolia several times a day which is not happening.
The shops have to pay for their collections so all their bins are locked. Haringey does not and will not provide bins for these residents and it will not insist on regular collections by Veolia. Catch 22?
My point is this situation could be resolved if Haringey were willing to take the right actions. Why can't these people have a bin like everyone else?
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According to a chap who rang me to follow up on my complaint about torn bags on Etherley Rd, there's "no room". When I pointed out there was room for the bags, so there must be room for a bin, he then stated that (with regard to Green Lanes) the traders had complained about bins on the side streets, so...no bins.
This leads to the absurd situation where the councils response to people's rubbish bags being torn open is not 'give them a bin', it's 'CCTV, outreach visits and prosecution'.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Why do the traders have such a powerful voice in the Council ?
If the residents on the side roads complained about the traders' bins would they be removed ?
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Permalink Reply by warren miller on
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I got hold of the council about this exact problem on Dongola road - they said they couldn't do anything about it so I sent them pictures of the rubbish over a few weeks and they gave in and have them bins
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Here's my best guess. That once again this relies on numbers from the DEFRA Fly-Capture database. Which records the reported fly-tips based on a trust system - trusting that local councils will not "game" the figures to make themselves look good. Which many of them certainly were doing when Liz Ixer posted on the topic in 2008 and I added a comment. And in 2010 when Hugh posted the topic again.
I called the whole thing a pantomime and even wrote a little Achieving Excellence rhyme. (That being the motto of Dr Ita O'Donovan, the Chief Executive before the last Chief Executive.)
♪ ♫ We’ve no lorry loads of waste.
Our pavements all are cleaner.
If you dump some bags in haste
You'll get a fine that’s meaner
Our streets are scrubbed each day
By sweepers in profusion
So those fly-tips down your way?
Just statistical illusion! ♫ ♪
As a non-learning 101 Council, every year Haringey goes on getting clobbered - or is that now Kobbered?
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May be someone someone should compile a list of factors on causes of rubbish left around the place and how they can be measured. Here is a starter list:
- Council refusal to provide bins to some residents
- Council charges for business disposal of waste - particularly building waste
- Council not ensuring Veola adheres to contract to collect bags on pavement on main roads
- Council not ensuring prime target dumping locations not on main roads are on Veola's contract
- Council deploying mobile CCTV on minor traffic offences, not fly tipping crime
The word Council in each issue definitely suggest a root cause. My point is we could hold only the dumpers involved. The reality is Haringey is partially responsible by providing an environment where rubbish is not cleared and dumpers can get away with it and are even encouraged not to use bins.
Just imagine being a Haringey Councillor trying to defend the indefensible. Maybe this is why Councillors do not post on this site.
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We have definitely seen an increase of fly-tipping on our local streets, in the Miltons. I blame the wheelie bins being stored on the public footpaths where residents see dumping at the sides as an additional resource. Also Haringey is poor at enforcement which exacerbates the problem.
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