Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Car ownership in Harringay
An interesting fact from the How well do you really know Harringay? thread was that 62% of households in Harringay do not own a car or van.
Given this, I struggle to understand why it is accepted that it is OK that cars cause so many problems in the area. Be it the the constant congestion on Green Lanes (including the fact that half of it turns into a car park for half of the day), the permanently full parking spots on the Ladder roads, the difficulty of closing a road for one day a month for kids to play, cars bombing up and down Wightman Rd making it generally unpleasant, pedestrian crossings in dangerous places, etc.
Given the initial statistic it seems that cars should really be taking a backseat to the needs of the majority of the community rather than the other way round.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Grant on
-
'would you expect the cars to just vanish?' As a matter of fact, that's exactly what I would expect to happen:
-
Permalink Reply by John D on
-
There may be good ( some ? ) local support ON HERE, but what about the majority of the residents ( for many of whom English is not their first language ) who do not contribute to HOL ?
-
-
People with buggies and in wheelchairs cannot walk down Wightman road because the parking spaces are on the pavement! The traffic islands are regularly knocked into by people driving in speed in what is effectively a residential road. Two very small examples of car domination and road space being taken away from people to give to cars. Sarah C's point about reducing the need to drive for short journeys is spot on- if Green Lanes and surrounding roads were more inviting for cyclists and pedestrians more people would cycle/ walk. Research shows that pedestrians and cyclists spend more in shops than people in cars so it is also good for local businesses. There is also research that shows that when you restrict routes for motorists rather than displacing traffic, it actually 'evaporates'. John D is also right to make the point about finding out about levels of support in the local community but it's always good to have a plan to go to people with outlining a proposal, explain what and why and having answers ready to the many questions that will come up. when people see the effects of restricting traffic in action they begin to see the possibilities of the alternatives- do check out the play street on Pemberton Road- people always say that kids sit in front of computer games and are always on social media- well on Pemberton they are out playing, socialising and people talk to their neighbours. I know which sort of street enviornment I would prefer to live in. I'm pretty sure that most people would object to a flyover being built over their garden/ house- but if you want to drive everywhere you have to accept the blight that these types of roads cause. But there is another way....
-
Permalink Reply by Ruben on
-
you see, your assumption of Wightman road being a residential road is not something I would agree with. Instead I have always seen it as a car-priority road. The reasons are:
- there's very few homes on the railroad side
- there are crossings with traffic lights at the points where there is a station, to guarantee safe crossing
- there are very few shops or other amenities in the road
I see a lot more value into protecting Wightman as a motor-traffic road and, in exchange, making green lanes a much nicer road only for pedestrians, buses and bicycles.
Yet, wightman road has also now been disgraced with isles that make driving through a lot more dangerous, speed bumps and 20mph restrictions.
I agree that initiatives like pemberton's are great. Blocking a street on a sunday is not a catastrophe, you can drive down any of the other streets.
My main complain is that all people in favour of more people-centric roads are making their point at the expense of vilifying motor-vehicle drivers instead of offering alternative means that would make cars redundant.
When you say that the traffic is not caused by our local people, that is a completely true statement, however it is petty and unfair. When I drive to work (which saves me 2 hours and £30 per day as opposed to public transport) I have to drive through other neighbourhoods. What if they went down the same petty way?
As for bicycles, I don't personally want them using the same tarmac as I until they have a registration number (which could be free) so when they contravene the highway code they can be punished and points taken off their licenses, the same as any other road user.
-
Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
-
Ruben:
"there's very few homes on the railroad side"
Have you seriously not noticed all the houses - a more or less continuous row between Harringay and Hornsey rail stations??
"Yet, wightman road has also now been disgraced with isles that make driving through a lot more dangerous, speed bumps and 20mph restrictions."
The changes have slowed traffic down and made it safer.
We would all be better off if far more people used bikes - a very real alternative to cars for many people in London. We should be encouraging not discouraging.
-
Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
-
You beat me to it David. There are hundreds of houses and many more households on Wightman Road. It's also crossed by hundreds of kids at least twice a day going from the the two schools.
-
-
Yep, one at one end and one at the other (over a kilometre apart) and not one near each of the schools.
-
-
the one in fairfax/falkland for North Harringay and another by hampden road for the station. If kids cannot walk 25m no wonder we have a problem with obesity.
Then another traffic light in Burgoyne road for the other station. My bad on the crossing for South Harringay, there are isles however.
Anyway, there's no point arguing with people who can only see one side of the picture (remember I, too, walk and take the tube and the bus). If you don't have a car, you don't lose anything by having them banned. I just hope an ambulance doesn't have to rush to one of your loved ones just to find the street blocked by a bollard and having to spend a precious couple of minutes undoing them
Plus, so far, nobody has told me how to get to the industrial estate in Hemel in 1 hour and for less than £165 a month. So far, the best I am getting is £330 a month (train only) and 2 hours of trip. Only that I am evil for driving and that most likely I'll run over someone and go to hell
-
-
I don't think I was accusing anyone of satanic intent for driving a car. A car will be necessary for some people and I quite accept that. Wightman Road was never build to take the volume it has as the moment, never mind an increase. What I want to see is car traffic kept on Green Lanes which is much better suited to the purpose. Maybe the way to do that is to keep it moving and actually using the two lanes in each direction rather than one lane being out of use due to parking.
And of course kids should be able to walk 25m to get to the crossing but most of them don't live that close. The ones in the middle part of Wightman are quite a distance away. -
-
-
Talking about one side of the argument - I'm wondering about the wisdom of debating with some who had not noticed all the houses on one side of Wightman Road.
I think this thread has been all about how to reduce traffic - I don't think that anyone has seriously suggested getting rid of cars (just for the record I have got one).
Getting out of London can indeed be much quicker overall in a car -if you are honest about the costs of driving I suspect it might not be that much cheaper. My usual commute is quicker if I drive but I choose not to, I can get quite a bit of reading done on trains/tubes so its not dead time in the way that driving is. I cycle quite a bit which is some good exercise. I hate driving in London - makes me very grumpy.
Perhaps one of those bickerton type things would speed things up on your commute.
-
-
-
I agree that the carrot approach works better than the stick to get people out of their cars. Other European cities with much higher levels of cycling are also often quite nice places to drive around. But you have to make the alternative to the car as safe and convenient as driving a car currently is. What we have are roads dominated by car traffic, which feel unsafe and intimidating for cycling & walking, so people drive instead, which makes the roads more dominated by car traffic. The way to break out of this cycle is to provide safe space for walking and cycling, not try to force people out of their cars by trying to make driving as unpleasant as cycling currently often is. This would also benefit car drivers as less people driving frees up road space for other drivers. You are quite right that what we have now is two parallel roads, Wightman and Green Lanes, that are both pretty awful whatever form of transport you choose to use.
By the way, in the UK pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders have the right to use the road by statute. Cars do not. I like the idea that 'other' (non cycling) road users are 'punished' 'when they contravene the highway code', but that doesn't seem to bear up to reality. There is quite obviously minimal enforcement of road rules in this borough, even to those who cause the most damage (motor vehicles). Pointless, expensive, bureaucratic registration of a benign form of transport like bicycles, which has proven to be a complete failure everywhere that's tried it, is hardly going to make any difference.
p.s. the Highway Code is a Code, not law, and therefore most of it is unenforceable anyway.
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
