Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Writing on the Wall for Fairline
Today's planning applications list shows an application for the use of this triple shop premises as A3 (Restaurant). So it seems that what the owner told me a few weeks back may not have been the whole truth.
I'm told that the application is being submitted by an operator who is already running a restaurant elsewhere in North London. The plans are for it to be another Turkish / Kurdish operation.
The traders I've spoken to seem split on whether another Turkish restaurant is a good thing or a bad thing.
Tags for Forum Posts: fairline
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Fowler on
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Perhaps Hugh is right, and I am falling prey to listening to gossip or tittle-tattle, but I suspect that a lot goes on "under the surface" or "behind closed doors" that is criminal or borderline, but it is something that most of us "respectable citizens" don't see or ever encounter. I think this is true wherever you go in London, or any other big city, regardless of ethnic groups or whatever. There seems to be a lot of serious academic research, and solid investigative journalism, which is reported in serious newspapers, that backs this up.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Not good enough Christopher. "There seems to be a lot of serious academic research, and solid investigative journalism, which is reported in serious newspapers, that backs this up" is still tittle tattle in my book.
I'm interested in the truth of the matter, which is why I've taken the trouble to ask so many questions about it, but I'm not particularly interested in tittle tattle.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Hugh, how fair to Christopher is your challenge of "tittle tattle" and "not good enough"?
On this matter, do you honestly expect you're going to get names, dates and places and actions, as evidence, posted on a social networking site?
Is your motivation to downplay this, any desire to maintain local property values?
I recall my backpacking trip around Sicily years ago. I hadn't originally intended to go there but a ferry strike at Brindisi caused me to change my plans. As I made a trip round this beautiful island, I thought, this is the home of the Mafia. But for a tourist, there is no evidence of it. There wouldn't be.
In Green Lanes, I have no evidence one way or another, but perhaps your Turkish and Kurdish is better than mine.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Bailey on
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Quite. Very well put, Clive!!
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No, Clive, I'm not trying to downplay anything. There are, believe it or not, middle class motivations beyond property values.
My experience of Harringay is rather different to yours with Sicily. I'm not a tourist here. I live here and I've been asking questions about the rumours over a period of five years. The outcome of that questioning is that I cannot find any evidence of any live protection racket. I've heard lots of rumours with no shred of any evidence nor reference to any.
It's ridiculous to suggest that I'm asking for any evidence to be published. A suggestion that we're in a conversation that's supported by more than tittle tattle would be a grand start.
I've said that I could be wrong, but I'm trying to keep the conversation within the realms of reality and ensure that unsubstantiated rumours are understood for what they are.
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Hugh, you've seen various "suggestions" that this exists and have chalked them all up as unfounded "tittle tattle".
In what other form would you like a suggestion to be made?
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No, I haven't chalked them up as unfounded tittle tattle, initially at least, or I would't have taken the time and trouble to follow them up and ask questions over such a sustained period.
I have heard other rumours, unrelated to this issue which I've followed up. Some have proven to be true and others not. What's common in every case, is that I've taken the time and trouble to ask targeted questions to a range of people in a position to know.
Repeating rumours in a pub conversation is one thing, doing so in a much less delible way is, in my opinion, quite another.
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Funny that your questioning hasn't shed any light, because not more than a couple of years ago, I asked a non Turkish restaurant owner if she had ever been asked to pay protection. "Hell yes but I refuse to pay it" was the answer. That restaurant is no longer there, more's the pitty!
A protection and drugs racket would be a silly thing to advertise, or bring to the attention of yokles (especially social media active ones such as yourself) who might well make a fuss and object! Keep it quiet and "everyone's a winner"...
Not of course founded on hard fact, but just as much effort as you've made tells a whole different story to the answers you've been given! -
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Where's your data Christopher? All I see is still tittle tattle.
You want data?! On this subject?
The data that is readily available are the local real estate values that appear to have interested you in the recent past.
"Data" on this current subject is hard to come by, by its nature.
You complain about a lack of evidence ("no shred") and in the next sentence say you don't expect to see evidence published ("ridiculous").
Perhaps you can identify which clause you meant?
I – and others – also talk to people in Green Lanes.
I don't think it's a prerequisite to continuing the conversation (as it might be for some), but this link goes into some detail about the background to the subject, i.e. north east London's Kurdish / Turkish mafia. The article contains 19 references to Green Lanes.
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Not quite. Turkish food does not equate to either spanish or italian food. It is great but it is different. Monotous High Street of another kind = boring. It would be great if they could just renovate and provide a great green grocers that selling good quality fruit and veg at reasonable prices that are so hard to get in supermarkets.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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I agree JJ B and thanks for bringing the discussion back to the loss of a cheap fruit and veg shop and the rise of yet another large Turkish restaurant.
This high street of ours is becoming homogenized, not by pound shops but restaurants and betting shops. It is not multiculturalism at all. It is monocultural.
Where is the impact study on increased traffic and parking, noise and pollution of another restaurant? I doubt there will be one, will there? There never is. We are just supposed to incorporate it and enjoy living with crowds at nightimes esp weekends, noise etc. There comes a point where the balance it tipped- I think we are at that point.
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Ruth, some years ago we had a (NOT) cheap fruit and veg shop on the Endymion Rd side of Green Lanes. It rejoiced in the possibly eponymous moniker of "Johnny English" and was festooned with the Union Flag and St George's Cross. I believe Johnny felt in his heart that Harringay-Green Lanes was simply not sufficiently monocultural. Alas, the inviting decor of Johnny's shopfront could not compensate for Johnny's customer-friendly-challenged manner. If I'm not mistaken, Johnny or his twin brother may still be trading from a stall on Wood Green High St.
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