Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Street cleaning in Harringay: some observations
Well, exactly one month after the 'hand over' to Veolia from Enterprise, I've got a few observations about how they are doing in my little bit of N4.
- Delays in removing waste resulting in more waste being added to the piles. Enterprise were no angels but I rarely had to report fly tipping more than once, nor did I see it the day after I reported it. At the moment, I am seeing fly tips lasting several days, post report, and I'm having to report more than once.
- Haphazard removal - so a pile of black bags are removed from around a bin near a school but a (clearly visible) pile of fly tipping in the Passage (also near the school, also reported) 100 m away is left behind.
- Cleaning is much more thorough than before when its done, but long periods when there is no street cleaning. In particular, Harringay Passage is being neglected (I'm removing recyclable and 'clean' rubbish to my bins, or else it would be much worse than it is in my adopted stretch).
- Dog poo is not being removed (whatever the cabinet member might say about reporting every single turd and requesting removal). I don't want a repeat of the notorious dog shit blog post but I will if the turds are not removed.
- Green Lanes is noticeably cleaner and the 'hoover down the middle' approach appears to have been replaced with more effective methods. The head roads, i.e. the tops of the roads leading into Green Lanes, should be swept daily. I'm not sure this is happening daily, although, again, when it is done, its done well.
- Cleaning after refuse collection: early on, having seen a street cleaner on the same day clearing up all the mess left post refuse collection, I had hoped that the method had been adopted whereby street cleaners and refuse collection are scheduled together. This, however, appears to be a one off and, as my refuse is collected on Friday, the street usually looks pretty bad by the end of the weekend.
- Bins continuing to to be left to overflow on Ladder roads and not emptied enough, notably Pemberton and Seymour in my patch.
- Graffiti cleaned promptly and effectively.
Helpfully, I have been provided with this information:
- Main roads and the first 50 metres or first junction of headings are to be swept daily
- Harringay Passage should currently be swept 3 times a week Monday, Wed and Friday.
- The removal of dog mess should be carried out when providing the scheduled sweeping regime.
- Street cleaning bags should be collected after the scheduled sweep has been carried out. Our new waste contractor (Veolia) has been working on dedicated collection locations for sweepers to leave bags to be collected.
The full schedule for a twice weekly clean of roads should be available by the end of May
However, can I urge people to report all poor street cleanliness, fly tips etc using the report a problem button on the right hand side of the home page. Doesn't matter is you think someone else might do it, better a few reports of the same problem, than none at all.
Tags for Forum Posts: dumped rubbish, fly tipping, love clean streets app, problem reporting apps, rubbish, street cleaning, veolia
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Matt: I asked some street cleaners about the initial litter bin key problem, and got a different answer. They also said that new keys were bought and the problem solved.
I suspect this is one of those situations where everyone is partly right. Like one of my favourite stories about the nature of truth and factual accuracy - the blind men and the elephant.
Although as the link to the Wikipedia article suggests, it's several varying versions of the same story - Buddhist, Hindu, and Jain. A poem is also quoted by the Sufi Muslim Rumi. His version is about sighted people describing 'The Elephant in the Dark'.
Rumi ends his poem with the line: "If each had a candle and they went in together the differences would disappear."
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Permalink Reply by LOUISA LIVERMORE on
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Thank you for Fabrice for providing another method of communication. The Haringey Council 'report a problem' button isn't really worth the effort. They say they'll get back to you in 10 days. After 10 days you get an e-mail telling you which department they've sent your 'problem' to and then....silence.
There is a dangerous fly-tipping spot just down from WEst Green Primary School on Woodlands Park Road. Am pretty sure it's done by the businesses in the yard behind WPR. But often car parts are dumped (often sharp) and it's dangerous for the school kids.
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Permalink Reply by Abi on
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Me too actually. I've never known a job not be dealt with in good time.On one occasion they didn't remove everything at once (and that WAS more since the change-over, thinking about it) but I think it's generally a very good system.
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Louisa, as a councillor, I'm very concerned that you've had a poor experience of the Report-a-Problem page on Haringey's website.
But if you've reported fly-tipping then something is going very wrong if you don't get an email reply for ten days.
The system should generate an acknowledgement to your email address within a few seconds. This will give a reference number. And will say that: "We will try to remove the dumped rubbish before the end of the next working day."
Recently I've noticed examples where this hasn't happened. (Like this one.) It was one of the issues which Tottenham Hale councillors raised with the Veolia staff.
Can I please ask you to send me a copy of, say, the last couple of emails you got from Haringey giving you a 10-day response. I'd like to look into it.
About dumping in Woodlands Park Road, my partner Zena Brabazon, one of the St Ann's ward councillors, asked me to take these photos ; and she requested Haringey Street Enforcement to investigate. Please send her details of the problem location you've highlighted.
Can I also stress the general point that Haringey Enforcement staff have a vital role to play here. Veolia can't do it all!
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Thanks for the response Fabrice and to Liz for flagging this up. As one of the ward councillors I would be very keen to join you on a walkabout.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I walked past the guy doing the passage this morning and where he'd been was just as filthy as where he hadn't. Pay peanuts...
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I'm not challenging your specific observation, John. Nor am I suggesting that street cleaners should be paid peanuts. But are you implying that a poor standard of work is normal?
If so, then from my own admittedly limited observations, I think you are wrong. I agree with Liz that the standard of sweeping has improved. Though what I've seen also matches Liz and other people's view that the purple bags stay on the streets far too long. So they 'model' and tacitly approve dumping. Veolia know this is a problem.
Veolia staff swept and neatly bagged the stuff in my photo. (Taken at the entrance to Carbuncle Passage in Tottenham Hale. ) It wasn't cleared fast enough. But the people who moved really quickly were the arseholes who dumped yet more waste in the alley.
John, can I please suggest that - if you haven't already done so - you take up Fabrice Bouchon's invitation and send your comments about sweeping in Harringay Passage to the Veolia website address he gave.
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Permalink Reply by Neville Collins on
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There is a serious issue with the collection of the sweepers sacks. When all the beats were drawn up, there should be specific places, mainly on some street corners, where the sacks SHOULD be put for the collection vehicles to pick up. Exceptions to this, for example, include streets with double yellow lines, pelican/zebra crossings, etc, where the vehicles cannot stop. This will save them valuable time and save on fuel at the same time.
I also believe that like the street sweeping teams, the sacks collections should be area based. Although I have seen a noticeable increased presence in street sweepers, but the result (particularly in Tottenham Hale) remains the same. However, locals should assess whether the service has improved in 12 months time. Then we'll see whether Veolia has done a good job or not.
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Okay I know this is off topic but it strikes me that some of the participants on this discussion might be able to point me in the direction of where a complaint can be made. There is a house on the corner of Lausanne Road and the passage with a low wall towards the passage. They recently added a fence to the top of the wall to make it higher and I can understand that and it actually looked okay. However, when I walked past last week they had added cement at the top of the wall and lots of broken glass in to this. It looks awful but I am aware that this is common practice along the passage, but as this wall is so low I am horrified about this as I think it poses a real danger to young children as in my experience most young kids see a low wall as a challenge to try to pull themselves up and test their strength. I have this awful vision of some poor young kid slicing their hands to shreds.
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Yes it's ugly and cheap looking but I do feel for people who live right next to the passage. A shame they couldn't have smashed up some bottles of Veuve instead of the cheap Polish lager bottles they've used.
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Reporting from Antill Road, in Tottenham Green/Tynemouth area, where we have a major problem with dumping (this morning five pallets and three carpets dumped overnight) and dog shit. We regularly have Veolia bags left out overnight and over the weekend. In (helpful and sympathetic) correspondence with Cllr Richard Watson, I was told that the Veolia contract requires the purple bags to be collected at the end of each day. This week we had one bag left on Wednesday which is still there - and which i reported as dumped rubbish on Thursday, yet was not picked up.
And walking to and from the tube on Wednesday and Thursday morning I saw purple bags left on Hanover Road, Talbot Road and a large pile by the Green, out overnight. We all know that rubbish is magnetic: it is perverse that Veolia is adding to the very serious problem we have on Antill Road. If Veolia doesn't view it's own dumped rubbish as worth picking up what chance for fly tipped rubbish?
It also seems unhelpful that there is no service at the weekend. The stuff that has appeared this morning won't be cleared until Tuesday, as the way the system works is that Veolia picks up rubbish 24 hours after someone in it's office reads the dumped rubbish report which won't be until Monday.
One note on dog shit: the continuation of theme between cleaning contracts is that whether Enterprise or Veolia, the street cleaners on Antill road ignore it. One of my elderly neighbours was out on Thursday washing a huge deposit off the pavement near his house by the church on Antill Road. The shit is still there in the gutter, despite cleaners having passed by twice.
We don't even have 'no dumping' signs up in the stretch of road where most dumping takes place, let alone patrols or inspections. Is anyone aware of what Haringey Council does to enforce its illegal dumping policy? I wonder if other areas have cctv - I can't see how anyone ever gets prosecuted for dumping.
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Surely some dog shit in the gutter can be left? Are big signs saying "No dumping" not unsightly also? They have subtle little stickers in Kensington and it seems to work just as well.
There is a problem though, isn't there. Would anyone object to Veolia putting their purple bags into their Wheelie bins if they're not half full?
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