Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Gating the Ladder
How would you feel about gating the passage ways of the Ladder? I could be completely wrong (as I don't use the passageways) but it appears to me that there are more costs than benefits to having free access to passways. They are poorly overlooked and offer too many opportunities to a criminal - no escape routes for victim in the passage way, quick escape route for criminal from street. These areas could be kept for wheelie bin storage or something more creative instead.
Tags for Forum Posts: crime, design, dog poo, ladder, new river path, passage, the, urban
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Glyn, thanks for the great work you and your team are doing - I can't even begin to tell you how helpful you guys have been re. my problem neighbours!
I'm all for gating sections of the passage at night, hopefully that will stop a lot of the noise, dumping and crime!
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Robbers and muggers get away down roads, the new river path and other such alley ways, do we close them all at night?
Keep it open for the majority of law abiding users and do not let the minority of law breakers force local policy on the rest of us.
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Permalink Reply by TTTH on
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I would argue that the average "law abiding user" would not walk down the new river path or any other dark path at night. People need to be protected from taking unsafe short cuts too.
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New river path maybe, but the Passage is used at nights by many law abiding people, myself included.
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Permalink Reply by hannah on
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Not for it. If we shut off every part of London that had criminals wondering about we would all end up moving to ....... where in fact? I used to use it a lot to see a friend at the other end of the Ladder and it was invaluable, and sometimes, despite odd bits of rubbish and dog poo, quite pretty - you get to see bits of back gardens and trees in blossom you never would have noticed otherwise. And as odd as it should be, how often when you pass a stranger on Green Lanes do you or they say 'hello' or nod? Happens when you pass someone in the passage though! Accepted there is a risk of crime, but there is a risk anywhere. Only worth gating, I suppose, if the people living adjacent to it report a rise in burglaries due to access via the passageway. But the problem would just move elsewhere.
Cyclists off! Just laziness if they can't go round, and whoever buys a bike but does not like going on roads is obviously a bit confused. As a cyclist, no, I am not biased, but as not all cyclists give way or are that considerate, the minority that are badly behaved let the rest down and that is why the fine was brought in.
Gates could just encourage people to chuck their old mattresses and other rubbish over them and it would look awful at every entrance and create a health hazard for the houses adjacent to them.
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These are very valid points Hannah, but I think the compromise suggested is to close/ open the gates at dawn/ dusk or at certain times. Altho u have been fortunate enough not to have been a victim of crime, some people have and I certainly would not walk down the passage at night - no escape routes, etc. I think community safety is paramount, even if it's just fear of crime. Directing people to walk along the streets of the ladder, Green Lanes and Wightman Road is more sensible at night because there will be more people on the street and it's therefore safer. With regards to moving crime elsewhere. Criminals are of course opportunists and they seek out vulnerable spots like the passage. New research into designing out crime will help to get rid of these hot spots and this is one idea for the passage. Like I said a public consultation would be really worthwhile.
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Permalink Reply by Harringay SNT on
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It was public opposition a few years ago that stopped Thames Water opening up the section of the New River that runs through the `Ladder`.
They proposed to open the gates 24/7
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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That's interesting Glyn. I hadn't realised. I'd love to have that section open - unless my garden backed on to it, in whcih case my feelings would be quite different.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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>Gates could just encourage people to chuck their old mattresses and other rubbish over them and it would look awful at every entrance and create a health hazard for the houses adjacent to them.
Yes good point.
Closing off the passage because of criminal activity is a defeatist's reaction to dealing with crime. The best thing anyone living close to the passage can do is;
* if you can afford it, get double glazing
* otherwise make sure you have extra quaility window locks on sash windows
* build a high brick wall (about 8 ft) and cement in steel pike mesh into the top of the wall. There are good products around made for this purpose and they aren't as horrible to look at as barbed wire!
* failing all that get a doberman. They don't bark at every movement in the passage as people walk by but once someone drops into your garden .....
* and of course get an alarm. I know some folk living on the passage who alarm the downstairs area of their house before they go up to bed .... just in case. After a heavy night down at the pub it can be a little embarassing however the next morning when you forget the code 3 times, the alarm goes off and the next thing you're doing is explaining to the police on your own doorstep that you're really, really not a burglar! :)
> .... stopped Thames Water opening up the section of the New River that runs through the `Ladder`.
While the idea of continuing a walk along the New River through 'the ladder' roads is appealing, it is understandable why property owners adjacent were against it. Many have no walls or a low fence between the river and their property. They would probably have to pay out themselves to build a new high security wall and lose their peaceful river view if this area was opened up to the public.
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That's an interestin point, Glyn, and I think it backs up Colin's argument really well. Gating the passage is about safety, curbing anti-social behaviour and taking away a potential area where the public are easy prey for criminals.
I don't think there would be a problem with rubbish if the gates were high enough. Also, as there is apparently cctv in place, it should be easy to check and see who the litterbugs are?
Gating the passage would also probably make for safer and more pleasant walks for parents and children in the mornings, I would imagine less dog poo, vomit and syringes would be present.
I'm all for a public consultation.
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The big problem as was the case with the New River and why Thames Water proposed to not close them is if the gates were open during daylight who would be responsible for opening and closing them. There would be more than forty
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