Hornsey Town Hall plans given the go-ahead

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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on April 29, 2011 at 20:52

Another problem with this as far as I am concerned is that Mountview Academy are currently in Wood Green, part of the cultural quarter. It is an excellent cultural resource for young people - they currenlty have the Tottenham Grammar Foundation funding places for local kids on their various arts and drama courses. It is in Wood Green, the middle of the borough.

 

I assume they would move the whole thing to the West of the borough. Do we really need more resources like this to move to the West? 

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on April 29, 2011 at 21:17

David I know of La Rive Gauche de Paris and London's own South Bank, but its news to me that Wood Green is (only) part of the Cultural Quarter. I had no idea; thanks for the Heads Up.

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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on April 29, 2011 at 22:57

Would a semi-colon have helped you understand the setence more clearly? Dare I wonder if you perhaps have a spurious capital letter in your sentence?

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on April 30, 2011 at 10:03

I went to the Chocolate Factory open day last year and its interesting but whether it makes Wood Green a cultural quarter, is stretching it a bit. The railway tracks that divide the Borough, over the direction of the move, run from the north west to the south east,. The move you describe would be more south than west.

None of this is to support the particular outcome which the council has cooked up, which is a poor deal for the public, who paid for this fine building. The council has past form in obtaining poor deals when it tries to "dispose" of land and buildings.

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Permalink Reply by GN8 on April 30, 2011 at 12:40

You write: "Do we really need more resources like this to move to the West?"

 

However I am not sure your remark reflects reality. You are saying it, as if there ARE many such resources in the west, or that many have been moved from east to west?

 

I challenge you to take stock of where (in terms of east vs west) PUBLIC SUPPORTED educational resources have been focused for the last 20 years and let us know what you find.

 

I think you will be surprised...

 

But regarding Mountview move to HTH I doubt Haringey was the initiating force behind it... And as it goes I can imagine the residents of Crouch End will be more then happy for the 100,000 visitors to continue going to Wood Green... If I lived near by I would!

 

I will be interested to know what you think the people who live in Crouch End would gain from having it there? or what the people of Wood green gained from having it there for the last few years.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on April 30, 2011 at 20:10

Reality: quick comparison of the social characteristics of the 2 wards. Noel Park where the drama school is currently located vs Crouch End where it would end up under this scheme:

 

 

Noel Park

 

49^th (out of 628) most deprived ward in London

 

28.6% educated to degree level and above

 

21.5% no qualifications

 

18.5% professional status

 

21.5% unemployed

 

 

Crouch End

 

400^th (our of 628) most deprived ward in London

 

59.5% educated to degree level and above

 

9.6% no qualifications

 

42% professional status

 

9.3% unemployed

 

Question: Which ward appears to be more in need of educational/cultural resources?

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Permalink Reply by GN8 on May 1, 2011 at 14:21

Since you seem to have all those stats at hand, (Although you might want to consider referencing where you get them from), maybe you could actually answer the questions I asked?

 

1.Which PUBLIC SUPPORTED educational resource have moved from East to West in the last 20 year?

2. Where PUBLIC SUPPORTED educational resource have been focused in the last 20 years? (in terms of east vs west)

 

And since you care so much about those who are worse off then others, I would be interested to know what you think should the:

• 40% who aren't educated to degree level and above
• 9.6% who are not qualified
• 58% who do not enjoy professional status
• and 9.3% unemployed

who happened to live in crouch end should do to improve their situation? Move to Noel Park? Do their kids desrve less help?  

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on May 1, 2011 at 15:01

Slightly off topic GN8 but... did you hear the story of what Fortismere did with regard to its music scholarship intake for this September? No, thought not. If you had, you might not be ragging David so much.

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Permalink Reply by GN8 on May 3, 2011 at 1:40

No, I was not aware of the story you refer to.

I assume you are referring to this story?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23622404-parents-rev...

 

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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on May 1, 2011 at 15:10

Ward stats:

 

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/news_and_events/fact_file/wardprof...

 

My answer to your question is simply - it is entirely clear to me where the public investment SHOULD be going.

 

Plenty of Crouch End folk do turn up at the Drama school, it is a people carrier car park there on Saturdays. The problem is that I bet that far far fewer Noel Park kids will be there if it moves to Crouch End.

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Permalink Reply by GN8 on May 3, 2011 at 2:15

Thanks for sharing your source.

 

"it is entirely clear to me where the public investment SHOULD be going." And I think it does! Sadly not enough to make a real difference. Is it possible that money and investment is not the only answer?

 

"The problem is that I bet that far far fewer Noel Park kids will be there if it moves to Crouch End."

 

Why?

Surely the following will still apply?

HARINGEY YOUNG PEOPLES BURSARIES

We are pleased to announce that with Tottenham Grammar School Foundation funding, we are now able to offer the Haringey Young Peoples Bursary, which can provide tuition fee discounts to eligible Haringey residents who attending any of our part time courses.

Eligible students will be: aged between 11 and 25; resident in the Borough of Haringey; attending or have attended a Haringey secondary school and who are in need of financial assistance.

Each bursary will be considered on the basis of individual need; different levels ranging from 30% to 100% of course fees will be awarded as appropriate.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on May 1, 2011 at 17:07

I think it's hard to justify imposing our views on the Council when they've voted a different course. I don't think you can promote one persuasive set of facts to win an argument. It's broader than that - that's what politicians are for surely, to take a broader view of all the local factors.

 

As most people aren't bothered enough to even have a view let alone campaign, it's hard to claim a mandate for what things 'should' be like. So it just becomes one person's forceful idea against another's.  The difference is that it's their job to decide, not ours. The Council decision makers are human so they'll make mistakes from time to time too - should we not just accept that as a fact of life - 'abuse of power comes as no surprise'? Or maybe they've been swayed by effective lobbying from Mountview?

 

There seems little point in having representatives then disagreeing with the results of their representation - I'd like to see more of the system where we make them more effective. Benefit from past mistakes and promote successes.  It seems so subjective to do that though.  How well are Haringey doing now?  They can commission reports that show any degree of success they like, so who judges them objectively? 

 

'Current thinking' seems the de facto arbiter - it's a fashion thing - whatever is the latest 'next big idea', pushed by central government,  seems to hold sway. So they might be delighted at this 'big society' approach.

 

If I was paid £100k to run Mountview, got Hornsey Town Hall for free, got the council to spend £19m improving it, was able to raise lots of extra money because of the grade of the building, increased my tutorial fee income from it's current £5m per year and went on to get awards and honours from the arts community for doing so I'd negotiate a pay rise!

 

Given the nature of what Mountview do, their board, their relationship with  the sector, their history and the political climate, the chances are high that not only are they a fine institution, but they're going to enrich us culturally, particularly if they bring more of the talents of the impoverished to the fore. It's just that they're so narrow-minded.

 

My main feeling is one of disappointment - I was so looking forward to an arts centre!  I just wish that all those who want the space to include a wider range of arts rather than just Drama (most of us surely) would come together and get this decision changed, or at least impose duties to the rest of us on Mountivew.

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