Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
I don't think the Council is listening at all
I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the readiness of our council to include residents in local or borough wide policy priorities and plans.
Two local issues have led me here. The first is the Council's handling of the Green Lanes Corridor traffic spending and their response to a petition from the residents of Harringay about draft plans. I hope to deal with that soon on a separate post.
The second issue is the long drawn out issue of the banner on Harringay Bridge. There's been much talk - mainly dissatisfaction - on the site about Harringay Bridge. So when an email arrived last year from the Council announcing that the banners would be changed and seeking resident opinion, it seemed like residents might finally get a say.
Here's what the email said
The Green Lanes Strategy Group (GLSG) will soon be considering updating the current banners on the Green Lanes Bridge in Harringay. It was previously agreed by the GLSG that advertising spaces would be made available using the two small banners on both sides of the bridge to generate an annual income in order to be able to provide regular maintenance of the surrounding area of the bridge and to ensure that the banners are updated and kept free of graffiti. It was also agreed that local businesses would be given priority to use the advertising spaces available; the only take up at that time was from McDonalds. The contract with McDonalds is now coming to an end in September 2010. There are now sufficient funds generated through the advertisement to upgrade the banners and replace the small ones to their original display identifying the two wards. However in doing this, GLSG is mindful that no further advertising space will be made available and therefore, no further income will be generated to continue the future up keep of the surrounding area of the bridge and that of the banners.
In view of this, and before any final decisions are taken by the Green Lanes Strategy Group, community representatives on the GLSG are asked to consult with their respective community groups for their views regarding:
1. the possibility of continuing to use the bridge banners for advertising / sponsorship purposes from local businesses.
OR
2. to revert back to the original banners without any advertisements
The GLSG is due to meet in September and I look forward to receiving your comments by no later than the week beginning 30 August.
The banner design was put out to consultation. Please can you provide me with a full copy of the consultation results.
Believing the Council would want local opinion taken into account, Harringay Online ran a survey which looked at a broader set of issues on what locals would want on a new banner. 218 people responded. The survey results in full are attached to this post. Perhaps the most notable finding on the survey was on the matter of what will be written on the banner:
The only replies I received on this submission were:
1. From Nilgun Canver - Thanks Hugh. This is helpful. We’ve got time until Sept. Let’s see what the others will say. Pls. forward to Dasos for me.
2. From Dasos - Thanks again for sending me the outcome of your on line survey – what would also be helpful if you can send me the figures on the number of people in each category that contributed
3. On a side copy from the Gardens Residents Association - So far we have had 9 replies to the GRA consultation concerning the bridge do we want advertising or not on the banners. I will be sending the results to Dasos soon- so if you have not yet voted - please do let me know asap.
I am also attaching below the document I sent in reply to Dasos. message (in 2 above). In addition to providing the breakdown requested, it also summarises other responses received to the 'consultation'.
You can imagine therefore how surprised I was when my next communication on this was the following email from the Council last Monday:
The Chair (of The Green Lanes Strategy Group) has also asked me to attach for your information, the final design for the Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners (below). The colours of the banners are in the "Haringey Green" although this is not clear from the attached. The banners will be installed as soon as possible.
So on the same day I wrote again to the council, pretty much saying what I've said above; this time to Claire Kober (Leader) cc Nilgun Canver (Chair of Green Lanes Strategy Group & 'cabinet' member responsible). I concluded by saying:
Whilst I can understand that the Council might not want to base decisions on the results of a survey run by Harringay Online, I would expect at least that our survey would act as a flag to local opinion and the Council would run its own consultation. 90% of our survey respondents chose an option other than the one that has apparently been chosen now by the Council. However, as it stands now, no local opinion was sought by the Council on the issue of what legend will be used, despite the very clear signal our work showed about the importance of the issue.
We're trying very hard to work with the Council and support giving local people more say on their neighbourhood. The Council's response to this representation of local opinion leave me quite frankly gobsmacked. Surely this isn't worthy of Haringey.
(Yes. okay by I was miffed).
Two days later the following email arrived:
Dear All
Further to the email below I would like to clarify the last paragraph.
The final design of the 'Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners' will be discussed and agreed at this meeting (under item 4 on the agenda).
We apologise for any confusion this may have caused.
Kind regards,
Judith Comrie
By way of an interesting footnote. someone forwarded me the following message left by the former Chair of the Gardens' Residents Group on their Yahoo Group (You have to be a Gardens' residents to join):
I know this has already been discussed, but I think the presence of a banner
on the bridge really degrades the area.
So this issue is clearly one that concerns all parts of Harringay, including informally represented as well as formally represented residents.
I guess I must take the Council at their word. Whilst the fact that they've only prepared and circulated one option leaves me more than a little sceptical, and whilst the design suggests that this is a sign for the traders and Green Lanes rather than the whole of Harringay, it may be that after all the Council is willing to find a way of at least making a decent attempt at reflecting residents' views in what is after all the gateway to our neighbourhood.
The meeting that will decide is on Thursday 17 March 2011 at 7.30 pm at Woodlands Park Nursery, Woodlands Road, London N15.
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, glsg, harringay banner, harringay bridge
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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Just a friendly reminder that playing the ball not the man is the rule of thumb here.
Please make sure you're up to scratch with the house rules - best to stick to the topic in hand and not get sidetracked into personal remarks about an individual in the course of a thread.
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Permalink Reply by John W Leach on
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Alan,
I am truly amazed that I should be directed towards a Paper on Conflict Resolution prepared by Harvard Law School.
We are talking about local democracy in a civilised world and the fact that it does not exist in Haringey.
Your proposal eloquently makes that point clear far better than I ever could.
John Leach
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I don't want to misrepresent your viewpoint, John. But it seemed that your starting point was the blanket refusal even to consider the possibility of fruitful dialogue.
And this was because the other party - the Council - would simply ignore anything any resident said. In other words, you believe that it too had a blanket refusal to consider the possibility of a fruitful dialogue.
In this thread I've tried to make two suggestions. The first was to observe that while we all talk about "the Council", there is no such monolith. As often as there are staff who give 7 reasons why something can't be done; there are others who try 7 different ways of solving a problem.
My second suggestion is that there are different approaches to getting an organisation to move in the direction you want. My partner Zena once described a headteacher - for whom she had enormous respect - as having two modes of battling for something: 'Chieftain' and 'Sherman'. But actually he could be a lot more subtle, with a range of gentler but still persuasive tactics. Including: "Look can we sit down and talk about ways to resolve this?"
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Alan,
We are down to proof of the pudding time.
Will the hearing, due on 30th Marfch 2011, into the conduct of Councillor Adje as Chair of The Alexandra Park and Palace Trust when the lease was signed with Frioka be held in PUBLIC or behind closed doors?
The lease was subsequently quashed at a Judicial Review brought by concerned residents who could get nowhere with the Council. The Courts agreed with the residents, awarding costs against the Council who had "been the authors of their own misfortune".
In case you are unaware the indepedant Walklate Reports are the basis of a serious complaint against Councillor Adje.
Will the Hearing be held in Public?
We shall see.
John Leach.
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OK, we appreciate this is a serious topic, but it's not related to this one on the bridge.
A little banter is one thing but steering the thread to an unrelated issue is just not cricket. Please open a new thread or transfer your thoughts to a related thread
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Okay,
I accpet the admonishment - the problem is the overwhelming sense of frustration that nothing ever changes and the Banner on the Bridge is just a symptom of what goes on in Haringey.
I can name many other topics that are relevant and have the same root cause as the Banner - but enough and goodbye.
John Leach
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Permalink Reply by Omotn on
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You are not entirely right HoL Site Admin. The banner is merely a focus, The subject is the council's (I think of it as a monolith) response to a well prepared and well presented public submission. Compare the council's almost identical response to the very many well prepared public submissions on Ally Pally, and for another example its response to the LibDems alternative budget.
To quote Hugh (you?), the subject is:
" . . . . the readiness of our council to include resident[s] in local or borough wide policy priorities and plans."
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Thank you for your comments Omotn. Experience has taught us that if we allow people to post specifically about Ally Pally, for example, the conversation soon becomes bogged down.
By all means make your thoughts about council responsiveness to residents wishes known, but lets not get involved in long submissions about individual cases unless it has a relationship to the case above, that is to say the banner on the bridge.
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Hugh, bearing your comment very much in mind. Purely on a factual basis, can I please make it clear that the decision John refers to is entirely a matter for the Standards Committee which has an independent chair and a majority of independent members.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Not sure what this is referring to - but not to anything I've said I if it's been said on this thread today. I haven't been around all day, I'm afraid. It will have been Liz or one of the others.
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