Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Big savings needed in Haringey. Where should the savings come from?
Now the party's truly over. I've been talking for a while now about the need for local authorities to save something like 20-25% from their budgets. This evening Panorama took up the theme. It's now out there. For Haringey that'll mean savings of something like £80-100m in savings. That's huge! We're facing the biggest cuts since the 1970s. Handled badly, it will be an emergency.
So what do we think? What would we choose? We can sit back and let the Council take decisions or we can share the responsibility and contribute our views. Probably about as exciting as doing your expenses, but something we should probably be doing.
Here's how Haringey's spending is split right now:
So discuss. For more details on Haringey's finances, see this area on their website.
Some rules. Only constructive discussion allowed. If you want to party-politic or bash the Council, please go to another discussion. I'm opening this discussion for constructive discussion only. Break those rules and ya get nuked!
So what do we think? What would we choose? We can sit back and let the Council take decisions or we can share the responsibility and contribute our views. Probably about as exciting as doing your expenses, but something we should probably be doing.
Here's how Haringey's spending is split right now:
So discuss. For more details on Haringey's finances, see this area on their website.
Some rules. Only constructive discussion allowed. If you want to party-politic or bash the Council, please go to another discussion. I'm opening this discussion for constructive discussion only. Break those rules and ya get nuked!
Tags for Forum Posts: cuts, public spending cuts
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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The article mentioned above by Alan Stanton and written by Ian Willmore is now available on my blog here
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Here are the official details on where the first round of Treasury cuts will fall.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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Thanks for this Hugh.
I note that a minority (only Tory electors) voted for immediate cuts, yet we've all got to suffer them - what price democracy if you vote red or yellow but get the blues? When we vote in the next election, will we again get what the majority voted against?
Nothing reasonable that I do or say makes the slightest difference to what national or local governments do - nor should it I guess. With global capitalism having failed according to many, and UK politics requiring root and branch reform according to most, radical change is possible!
However, I can't visualise the chattering classes rescued from their individual self interests - that ruthless self interest is surely at the base of the crisis - it would be marvellous if we realised that acting exclusively in your own selfish interest just doesn't work and will bite you back, but it isn't going to happen, is it?
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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I have a practical suggestion that is in the spirit of Hugh's topic:
The council is believed to spend about £40,000 p.a on themselves for bottled mineral water. Is this a possible saving? I think it is.
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There are only two problems with the suggestion
(1) like all 'constructive' suggestions, there is little chance the council will take any notice; and
(2) even if the council took notice of this, it will not make the slightest difference in the big scheme of things.
Central banks are running out of cash. Those sovereign funds and private institutions still with money, will in order: (a) begin to charge usurous interest rates, then either (b) stop lending their money or (c) have no more to lend. Capitalism is in crisis and savings at the bottled water level, in our local council, are not so much a drop in a bucket as a drop in the ocean.
The unpalatable truth is that, whatever happens, most are going to have to get used to lower standards of living; alternatively, to live within our means.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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I think many already are living within their means and have cut back a lot. Since I lost my job, I know I have! But the council is meant to provide services for us and if they are not going to do so in an efficient and economic way (as they havent been doing for years with so much wastage) then we are really in a pickle.
Does seem like capitalism is in crisis as Chris says so the welfare state parts put in place to keep the workforce healthy and happy will be cut back. But they will still be selling cheap beer down at the supermarkets and the world cup is coming so we can forget about the crisis for a few weeks!
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Hi Ruth - it's always been 'bread and circuses' for the masses hasn't it? Gotta love Noam Chomsky on this - he sees all sports as 'training in irrational jingoism'
I'm feeling actually hopeful - we're still one of the wealthiest counties on earth and plenty of what we do is valued by other countries, especially our creativity. We're so lucky that we're not among the billions in poverty. Compared to them we're rich beyond the dreams of Croesus.
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Chris: great link. I have to say I feel similarly about the Olympics. Greece and the UK share much in common at present, both with massive budget deficits. But another thing in common not mentioned, is a need to pay for the expensive Olympic games (Greece paid – and presumably borrowed and is still paying – for her Olympics in 2004).
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ah, the lovely Noam. Always says the right thing at the right time. I know we are lucky. I am able to live quite well within my means- I just wish many more would cut out wastage and see the parks rather than Primarks. The recession was meant to change our habits and we were going to become frugal etc but I didnt see that happening much or for very long.
The poorest need protecting and maybe we who are better off can assist to make some real changes in the way things are distributed like council spending, cuts etc. I live in hope!
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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"The Council is believed to spend about £40,000 p.a on themselves for bottled mineral water.
[Translation: I don't know the current figure but let me suggest a large amount to bash the Council.]
"Is this a possible saving? I think it is".
[Translation: ♪ You gotta have a dream. ♫♪ If you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true? ♫ ]
"Like all 'constructive' suggestions there is little chance the council will take any notice."
[Translation: Dunno why I'm bothering with this thread. The Council will just ignore me.]
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Date : 28.05.2010
Our ref : LBH/78990
To : Cllr Alan Stanton
I am writing in response to your enquiry, requesting information on the Council's spend on Bottled Water. Our total spend on Bottled Water from April 1st 2009 – 31st March 2010 was £1,710.
If you require any additional Information please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards
Head of Supplies and Services Procurement
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Bottled Water If the Council has indeed slashed its spending on bottled water in the past financial year, this is a welcome devleopment, although still about £1,700 too much. Could the plunge in spending on bottled water have anything to do with the revelation that the council had spent £42,000 over the previous three years (not per annum as I mistakenly mentioned).
This was equivalent to £14,000 p.a. for stuff that undergoes fewer safety checks than the stuff that comes out of taps: for free. (I happen to think that even if the bottled stuff were free, it sets a poor example in terms of sustainability).
If this uncontrolled spending had not been brought to light as a result of a Member's question in Council, presumably the bottled water consumption would still be going on at the earlier high rate and nobody would be any the wiser. One wonders what other wasteful expenditure is currently going on that has not yet caught the eye of councillors ...
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Thanks for correcting your figure and giving the source of the information. I was able to quickly search the Council's website and find both the question - from LibDem Cllr Jonathan Bloch - and the answer in the minutes of the meeting on 31 March 2008. (It's written question 7 if anyone wants to read it.) In other words, the £42k referred to the three years April 2005-8.
I'm happy to give full credit to Cllr Bloch for raising the issue. And all our thanks if his question speeded up the substitution of mains water in the coolers. But we're now two years on, and looking for new and very much larger savings.
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B.T.W. Alan I don't see the bottled water episode as a party political point, because it I don't believe it was especially a majority group policy. It was just an example of careless spending of OPM (other people's money) by council officers, for whom the tap water the rest of us drink, was just not good enough.
Haringey was not alone and not the worst offender in this regard. Is there justification for councils spending any money on bottled water?
Although the amount spent (extravagantly) on bottled water is relatively small (even at the earlier higher rate) I think it is instructive because its an example of the free-spending style within the council that has little conception of how hard-won those tax-pounds might be.
It's the mind-set that needs changing, as another remarked. You can call this council-bashing if you like, but until the culture changes, there'll be no real improvement, IMO.
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