Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Parking stress on The Ladder and proposals for changes to Wightman Road
In response to Haringey's proposals for Wightman Road a group of local residents have been surveying parking on the Ladder "rung" roads to help make a judgement of the capacity the east/west roads may have to handle the reduced capacity on Wightman if Haringey's proposed scheme goes ahead.
Haringey carried out their own survey into parking stress (the match/mismatch between demand and availability) last year and we surveyed at the end of July this year with the results feeding in to the Ladder Community Safety Partnership (LCSP) response to the Haringey consultation.
As the first resident survey was carried out during the school holidays we decided to carry out a second survey in September as we felt that more residents would be at home, so giving a more realistic picture of what the Ladder looked like when it was at its busiest. This second survey was carried out on 30 September. Both surveys were carried out on a Sunday when the Ladder is busiest with parked vehicles.
For practical reasons (the sun setting!) the second survey was carried out a little earlier than the first so probably doesn't show true full capacity.
I've attached the results in Excel format and as a PDF. Reading across the tables
- Results from the first resident in July 2018
- Results from the second resident survey in September 2018
- The average of the data from the two resident surveys
- London Borough of Haringey survey data from 2017
- Difference in the estimated overall capacity of the Ladder rung roads (average of the resident surveys vs the Haringey survey)
The numbers are suggesting that parking stress was greater in survey 2, which is what was predicted because of the impact of the summer holidays on survey 1.
There are anomalies which you would expect with any on the ground survey, with some roads quieter and others busier when you compare the two resident surveys. To try and smooth out the peaks and troughs I've averaged the data from both surveys to give us a more realistic snapshot of parking stress on Ladder roads.
There are some differences between the potential capacity for each road between surveys 1 and 2. People don't park perfectly, making the most efficient use of available space. All it takes are a couple of cars and a motorbike and a section of road that could reasonably take 10 cars can only take 5. That is, I'm surmising, the difference between our two surveys and Haringey's. We walked the roads and looked at how they are really used. Haringey seemed to have used road measurements and assumed the capacity if everyone parked with a perfect space between each vehicle and then derived the result arithmetically. We all know that reality doesn't match up to that.
The main messages to me are that on Sunday evenings (the busiest time) -
- Overall capacity - Haringey have overestimated this by 237 spaces
- Vacant spaces - Haringey have overestimated this by 270
- Vacant space distribution - Spaces are not evenly distributed. While at the extreme north end of the Ladder this isn't going to pose as much of a problem at the moment, as their are fewer residential properties at the north end of Wightman, elsewhere it will be an issue for displaced Wightman residents. However, with the new 200 odd unit development coming on line at Hampden Road next year this will change. Even though residents in the new development will not be able to get resident parking permits, both they and their visitors will be able to park outside of controlled parking times.
- Vacant space location - the messages coming back from those surveying (with some exceptions) is that vacant spaces are mostly east of Harringay Passage, so located at some distance from Wightman Road residents
All my thanks to the residents who have slogged the streets of Harringay to collect this data.
Michael
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, ladder parking changes, wightman road improvements
- Attachments:
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Survey.pdf, 416 KB -
survey.xlsx, 14 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The atheism in Harringay is not to be discounted. People think that they grew their own legs inside their mother's womb because of evolution and by-god, they'll stick by that theory.
However the government has given them trains, busses and tubes to get places so your argument stands despite the religious reference. Private motor vehicle ownership IS killing children. In central London private hire cabs make up 60% of traffic and that is killing children too but there is no way a Labour run GLA will take people's jobs away. Jobs at all costs.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Getting rid of ones car is definitely the direction of travel :) And = no stress ... no stress over parking, permit application process, maintenance issues, insurance costs, road tax and all that time spent on all of the former ...
Using uber or a local cab firm is a click away. Hiring a car from a company like SIXT is pure pleasure. Latest cars, new tech, super low mileage. Then you give it back ... which it the best bit of all!
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Permalink Reply by 0l7ft44vlytse on
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I tend to agree - seems a little like the people who move in next to a pub then complain about the noise. It's plainly obvious there is not, and never will be, enough space in the area for everyone to have a car in front of their house/flat.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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There has been enough room up to now. But if the Council introduce alternate side parking on Wightman ( why ? ) things will change.
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Great work Michael and everyone else who worked on this surveys.
The solution is complex, but not sure extending CPZ would help and certainly not the proposed plans.
One thing that is taken into this discussion is the number of HMOs and sublet properties whose tenants cannot get parking permits due to the terms of their tenancies and only access to parking is out of hours.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I sympathise with your point Lu. What we need to address is that since the introduction of the original CPZ the commercial make up of Green Lanes has altered dramatically and it is in need of review.
The growth of the night time economy has been huge with many more visitors in the evenings than when the CPZ was first put in place. As I said earlier in this thread, there is no one solution that is going to satisfy everyone but with the expected population growth of Harringay ward once the new Hampden Road development comes on line thinking needs to happen now. The Ladder is already, in effect, a giant carpark bordered by houses and it will only get worse.
I probably should say that as someone who doesn’t live in a car owning household and has very few car owning visitors I don’t have the same stake in whatever solution is proposed, except that I would be quite keen to have an end to door slamming and engine reving when the restaurants shut in the evening.
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The average utilisation seems to be about 80% (based on the figures from the two local surveys) and no roads had zero spaces which seems reasonable at the moment and suggests there is some additional capacity.
What is the expected number of lost spaces from Wightman? I seem to remember that it was a lot less than the 480+ which are available on the ladder (was a count done of Wightman, obviously if that has a low utilisation then the displacement onto the ladder would be lower).
In terms of tallying with the census results, how many properties on the ladder have multiple flats in them? My (finger in the air) guess would be that you'd need to gross up the number of properties by maybe a third to get the number of households.
In terms of who is using the spaces, the anecdotal suggestion that more spaces are to the east of the passage suggests that it isn't necessarily people visiting Green Lanes using them.
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Andrew, there are about 130 bells per road. Yes that includes flats/maisonettes. Some households have no car, some two. Guess capacity needed is somewhere between 100 - 120. haven't looked at the survey data though :)
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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130 per road? Are you sure? Hewitt's highest number is 131+. So I'd say there must be at least 170 and that doesn't account for the odd house which is split into 7 or 8 "studios".
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That might be the case on some roads but I would think others have many more. A quick look at the middle section of the Ladder (Effingham to Warham) shows an average of about 130 properties (before you start looking at flats, etc).
Looking at Allison in the middle of that block, the sales data from the past 20 years suggest about 40% of properties have been split into flats (although there's only data for ~ 65% of properties and I wouldn't be surprised if flats have a higher turnover than houses so that 40% may be a bit high).
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As usual, the counci has ignored the real problem: too much traffic using the Ladder, to focus on a much smaller issue: parking. Classic playing the man, not the ball. I live on the north of the Ladder and constantly struggle to park near my property. Strangely, when Wightman was closed, I had no issues whatsoever with parking for the entire, six, wonderful, quiet, pollution-free months. It's almost as if those two things (less traffic, easier parking) could be related. But I'm sure I'm mistaken.
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You’re quite right Rory. The parking is the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself, which is the volume of traffic using the area. Even though I live on one of the streets least impacted by parking stress I too noticed the impact of the Wightman Road bridge closure. My street was a parking desert during the works which leads to the inevitable conclusion that it’s not residents’ vehicles that cause congestion - it’s visitors’. Haringey have to accept that the economy of Green Lanes has a direct and detrimental impact on those living in the area and actually do something that benefits us rather than prioritising the needs of businesses and commuters.
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