Worse than traffic: How neighbouring councils are fixing grill smoke (and we aren't)

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on Sunday

Neighbours, and other residents and customers should not be at increased risk.

It may be my poor memory. But I cannot recall any previous mention of two other groups of people who may be especially at risk.
  Please do correct me if you know that I am wrong.  

* One group may be the staff of the restaurants who work for many hours in or near the kitchens.

* A second group may be some of the staff's families and family guests, including children of those staff who live in or near the restaurants.

Has there been any specific medical checking/surveillance of either groups of people? 

I assume that the restaurant owners and the workers'  trade unions would all share a commitment to safeguarding their health, And introducing and ensuring work practices and equipment which will reduce known risks.  Including following best practice from other areas in London and elsewhere.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on Sunday

I was just wondering if the fear of the knowledge that a visit to the street can harm your health and the health of loved ones might be be part of a campaign to convince the council and traders to embrace higher levels of filtration. It would be bad PR for council and traders alike if a health warning that visiting the street damages your health were to get attached to the street. Of course, no one wants that, but I just wonder if the fear of it might help focus minds. It may also focus minds in the GLA and even central govt.

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Permalink Reply by Anna Abela on Sunday

Dear residents,

In recent months, we have been contacted by a number of Harringay ward residents who are concerned about emissions from restaurants on Green Lanes, which often use wood and charcoal-based ovens.

We want to reassure you that we have been following up on this issue, and on March 18, we had a very positive and helpful meeting to discuss a way forward. The meeting was chaired by Cllr Ibrahim Ali, Haringey Council's new Cabinet Member for Climate Action & Environment, and attended by key officers; the Director of Public Health, the Head of  Regulatory Services and senior officers from the Noise and Nuisance Team, Environmental Health and Trading Standards.

Officers told us that they have conducted recent inspections of the restaurants and have found them all to be compliant with the legal requirements on oven and air filtration maintenance. However, they also understand the wider issues related to emissions and appreciated that the high density of restaurants on Green Lanes could be contributing to a cumulative impact on air quality on Harringay Ladder roads. We all agreed that this demanded further investigation, and Cllr Ibrahim Ali was clear that we needed a multidisciplinary approach to tackling the issue and problem solving.

To do this we have agreed to a two-pronged approach to address the issue: 

1. We want to work with the businesses, which are a unique part of our Borough's cultural fabric. We have therefore agreed that the best approach is to launch a business engagement campaign in late spring or early summer to inform Green Lanes restaurants about the concerns residents have shared with us. The aim is to encourage them to introduce additional mitigation measures to reduce emissions, working with council officers including Public Health. Haringey Council's Director of Public Health will be involved in advising on these mitigation measures. We know that many local businesses want to make a positive contribution to their communities and will respond positively to this type of engagement. 
2. In parallel, the Council will develop an evidence base of the issues raised to help support compliance requirements. This evidence base will be built by scheduling site visits to Green Lanes during peak hours (18:00-20:00), seeking specialist legal advice, and exploring additional emissions measurement techniques.

To support this evidence gathering, residents should use the Council's Nuisance Reporting Portal to report specific incidents of high emissions. Complaints sent through other channels are not always received and logged by the Nuisance team, which hampers their ability to form a clear understanding of the time and extent of the issues.

We intend to track our progress by convening a meeting in this format every two months until the situation has improved. We would like to thank the residents who brought this matter to our attention and acknowledge the leadership of those Green Lanes businesses that already have sophisticated emissions-mitigation measures in place.

Best regards, 

Cllr Anna Abela and Cllr Zena Brabazon

Labour councillors for Harringay ward

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Permalink Reply by Anna Abela on Sunday

Also: for context, the email above summarises an hour-long meeting that went into quite a lot of technical detail on Nuisance law & enforcement that I have not reproduced in full here. Residents who would like to discuss this two-pronged approach in more detail are welcome to attend one of my surgeries. My next surgery is on Saturday 28 March at the TCCA, 628-630 Green Lanes N8 0SD from 11am-noon. 

Best, 

Anna

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Permalink Reply by Anna Abela yesterday

Also one more addendum on this, having now read Rae's thoughtful post more carefully.

Of the three options mentioned, my understanding is that we already do what Hackney Council is doing - i.e. Haringey is already a Smoke Control Area. During the two recent Green Lanes restaurant inspections that officers conducted upon my request, they checked the fuel that the restaurants are using and found these to be the smokeless fuels that are permitted in a Smoke Control Area. 

You can find more information about Haringey's Smoke Control Area here: Smoke control | Haringey Council

I suspect we may already be doing what Islington is doing regarding chimney heights - but I will fact check this to be sure. 

I will raise the Westminster City and Islington Council model with Council officers to explore whether they have introduced best practices we should emulate. 

Thanks again Rae for making a thoughtful contribution on this topic. 

Best,

Anna

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Permalink Reply by Hugh yesterday

Thanks, Anna. That sounds very helpful.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on Monday

Thanks, Anna. I do hope you're efforts are rewarded with results.  

For the record, residents have been raising the issue on HoL since 2012.

I'm reproducing below a sample of comments posted, starting off with two from a thread started by AndrewAW1 in 2019, one of which is a reply from Zena which carries the same message as yours. 

1a. Posted by AndrewAW1 on September 13, 2019

Aside from the general pollution on Green Lanes the "smoke" pollution seems to be getting worse. You can smell it most evenings and sometimes even see it in the air.

I'd guess it either comes from the Turkish restaurant grills or domestic fires (although I'd assume that, given the weather at the moment, it is currently mainly the restaurants). 

1b. Reply by Zena Brabazon on September 21, 2019 at 19:38

Dear All

The issue of smoke from the restaurants was raised with me some moths ago. I asked the enforcement officers about it. They provided a very long response which - in summary - is that individuals need to keep a record of how it is affecting you. General comments and criticisms won't work. The restaurants comply with the legal requirements and rules regarding extractors etc, so any complaint must be rooted in what is happening to an individual based on a log/record. I can check again as this was sometime ago but that is my recollection of the key points. I did press this issue and as I recall, they did provide a very comprehensive answer.

You can get in touch with me at; zena.brabazon@haringey.gov.uk

Both from https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/smoky-air-on-green-lanes

2. Posted by kotkas on March 19, 2018 at 7:38

Has anyone else noticed of late that there is a plume of restaurant smoke accumulating over the mid section of Pemberton and Mattison roads. Usually just over South Harringay School? I know that this is a common complaint in the neighbourhood but I have noticed it is far more pronounced, permanent and noxious than ever before, leading me to believe that it may be one of the restaurants in the area possibly lacking the required filtering systems?

It is very concentrated - to the point where one can smell what is being cooked, and tends to 'hover' over said area - one can tell that the air quality changes by going up and down the ladder streets.

https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/smoke-nuisance-mattison-pe...

3. Reply by Justin Guest on October 3, 2018 at 10:59 in a thread called "The Great Harringay Smog- Saturday 29th Sept 2018"

People will tell for years to come of where they were on that fateful day when Pemberton, and surrounding Harringay streets either side of Green Lanes, were overcome by what will become known as "The Great Harringay Smog". Oral history will pass the story of where forebears were the evening the Great Smog wrapped itself around Harringay for generations to come....

...the plume of smoke coming from the extractor at Devran.

..... A few residents have been discussing this for a while and we (which includes the LCSP and GRA reps) have engaged with Councillors on both sides of GL to try to see what can be done.

Initial feedback was not massively positive.

https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/the-great-harringay-smog-s...

4. Posted by Penguin on March 20, 2017 at 22:44

The air around these restaurants is often thick with coal fumes particularly but not exclusively at the weekends. I suspect there is some contravention of pollution control guidlines here but Haringey Council dare not intervene.

https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/turkish-restaurants-and-th...

5. Reply by Ruth on July 20, 2012 at 16:27

charcoal smoke drifting through the air which gets right into the flat....

https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/three-more-surprsized-turk...

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Permalink Reply by kotkas yesterday

Thank you Hugh for sharing this. It is incredible that this has been happening for 14 years with zero effective action from the council. I was walking down the street on a particualry nasty day with our young child and he remarked on how smokey/unpleasant the air is. It was quite eye opening considering it’s far from what a 7-year old would tend to notice or comment on. By the way this was all on a school street where children play outdoors for hours at a time. 

I have never experienced such nasty concentration of air pollution anywhere I have travelled. Maybe I haven’t travelled far enough but it looks we are better off moving out of the area than waiting for another 12 years of ‘solutions’ and risking likely asthma for our child. If the particulate matter reader is indeed true it should make national news. Utter disgrace.

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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on Monday

Hi Hugh and Everyone,

Thanks for adding all the historic posts. I also went through my emails which, as you say, go back to 2019. Anna and I are committed to getting action on this, and we have set out our position and planned approach in the post  Anna put on this thread last night from both of us. Rae has now provided information on steps taken by other boroughs so I will be asking both environmental health officers and public health about this.

Rae has also emailed us, and Cllr Ali so he also has the information. 

I want to thank everyone for the research you are doing on this.

Zena

Zena Brabazon

Cllr, Harringay ward

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