Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Women's safety
Hello all - I'm new to this site and think it's fantastic such a thing exists.
Really interested to read all your discussions, and wondered how other women who live in the area feel when they're out alone here? I have a massive bug-bear about living in this area (and it's not something I've experienced elsewhere): the disgusting attitude of many (young) men towards women. Apparently it's seen as appropriate to leer at any passing women, make obscene comments, or gross 'kissing' gestures (this latter one happened to me TWICE last Friday on Green Lanes, with one guy actually getting close to my face to try it whilst walking past me). The most shocking incident was a young guy on Green Lanes who greeted me with 'Alright, bitch' whilst passing me on a crossing!
Now, I don't dress 'suggestively' - it's winter for God's sake and I had about ten layers of clothes and a huge coat on! This seems to be a horrible ingrained attitude among many men, and seems prevalent among the Green Lanes menfolk to the point that I avoid walking down there at any time of day on my own. What do other women think? I carry a rape alarm at all times, but I fail to see the funny side of such behaviour: some friends tell me to simply 'ignore it', but at times the feeling is one of such intimidation that it's difficult to dismiss so easily. I tend to be a person who has to answer back when I'm insulted, but it seems like whatever tack you take - ignoring it or firing something back - has no effect. If we take a relaxed attitude towards it, what kind of message does that send out about what can be 'done' to women? Is there any hope for dissuading this kind of atrocious behaviour, and if so what could the approach be? Interested to hear other women's views and experiences.
Really interested to read all your discussions, and wondered how other women who live in the area feel when they're out alone here? I have a massive bug-bear about living in this area (and it's not something I've experienced elsewhere): the disgusting attitude of many (young) men towards women. Apparently it's seen as appropriate to leer at any passing women, make obscene comments, or gross 'kissing' gestures (this latter one happened to me TWICE last Friday on Green Lanes, with one guy actually getting close to my face to try it whilst walking past me). The most shocking incident was a young guy on Green Lanes who greeted me with 'Alright, bitch' whilst passing me on a crossing!
Now, I don't dress 'suggestively' - it's winter for God's sake and I had about ten layers of clothes and a huge coat on! This seems to be a horrible ingrained attitude among many men, and seems prevalent among the Green Lanes menfolk to the point that I avoid walking down there at any time of day on my own. What do other women think? I carry a rape alarm at all times, but I fail to see the funny side of such behaviour: some friends tell me to simply 'ignore it', but at times the feeling is one of such intimidation that it's difficult to dismiss so easily. I tend to be a person who has to answer back when I'm insulted, but it seems like whatever tack you take - ignoring it or firing something back - has no effect. If we take a relaxed attitude towards it, what kind of message does that send out about what can be 'done' to women? Is there any hope for dissuading this kind of atrocious behaviour, and if so what could the approach be? Interested to hear other women's views and experiences.
Tags for Forum Posts: Wightman Road, personal safety, rape, women
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on
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http://hollaback-uk.blogspot.com/
The London Hollaback site - nothing posted since December.
Based on a NYC blog encouraging women to report incidents of harrassment (and post photos- not sure if legally that is a good idea here!)
The Hollaback idea has spread to most big cities in the US. I don't know that it makes a real difference at street level but if the women reading it feel more empowered to respond to harassment, then that is a good thing.
It makes the important point that street harassment is not really about sex but about power. The creepy guys get a kick out of making you look and feel uncomfortable-it makes them feel powerful.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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not sure if legally that is a good idea here!
You think Princess Di had any say in the pictures that were taken of her? The rights to photographs belong to the taker, not the model Photographers used to be men and models women so of course it works this way. -
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It's more the libel issues of accusing specific, identifiable people of being perverts than the copyright issues regarding the photographers.
Burden of proof in libel cases is on the writer/publisher of the accusation. It's not just the writer but the publisher too - which would be Hugh in this case. And the ISP that hosts the site.
US libel laws are much weaker.
Most of the pervs are probably fairly dim and unaware of the libel laws but it is something to consider if people were seriously interested in posting information/pics about harassment. -
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I suggested it earlier in the thread but you can fill out the SNT survey regarding your concerns about Harringay and they use it to compile their priorities for this year.
If you haven't already done so, please fill it in. It will ask you to expand on your main concerns - if the SNT don't know the pervy kissy noises guys make many of us feel uncomfortable, then they won't know that we'd like them to do something about it.
My negative experiences of Green Lanes have largely, but not exclusively, been with men standing around outside some specific social clubs and barbers. If the SNT are told about this, there is the chance they can try and do something and know which areas to target/business owners to have a word with. So please fill in the survey- even if the official deadline has passed.
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See this blog post about how a scarf can make your travel down green lanes less of a hassle.
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Permalink Reply by rahman on
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What a nonsense blog. Hijabi young ladies dont have it easy on green lanes either from what I have seen and heard.
I'm with annette on the neutering solution.
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Permalink Reply by Louise Nazeraj on
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I don't think it sounds like complete nonsense. I think it's a shame you'd have to resort to such measures but if, as we seem to have ascertained, the abuse is coming from one particular section of Green Lanes society, it kind of makes sense. The women's lib movement might have a way to go to reform the views of certain ethnic groups.
I like Rachel's blogs and from experience she speaks from the heart as she sees things.
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Permalink Reply by Laura W on
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Come very late to this discussion but really glad it's been started (as well as the Street Harassment examples thread - a fantastic idea). I've been feeling uncomfortable for a while round here about this specifically as I get hassled quite a lot and was beginning to wonder if it was just me, if I was turning into a wimp, and if everyone else was just shrugging it off. I've lived in many different areas of London - including some pretty dodgy ones - a number of different countries & cultures and am sorry to say have rarely felt as vulnerable and - exposed? if that's the right word, as I do here sometimes.
I would hardly say I dress 'provocatively' in most people's definitions, I'm just a normal woman walking along minding my own business, or coming home in the evening ALONE (oh my god, perish the thought that I should dare) - and getting asked, as I have done on more than one occasion, if I want 'business'...erm. Frankly, I think I should be allowed to go about my life freely without being openly treated as if I'm a prostitute. All of us should.
Of course it's a 'culture' thing - but I don't see why I should have to modify MY way of dress in MY area because someone else can't take responsibility for HIS behaviour. If the only alternative is to have to cover up in the way suggested then sorry - I'd rather go somewhere else where my freedom is a given. But like others on here, I don't see why it should have to come to that.
Grrrr - right. Feel loads better now having got that off my chest! (And PS I noticed myself there wondering if I should be clearer on my choice of clothes JUST IN CASE you suspected I wore anything other than full cover from head to toe and might be even a teensy weensy bit responsible for the comments I get. Interesting, that)
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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Jen has set up a blog here specifically to report incidents. Please keep it only for reports. General comments on womens safety can, of course, continue to be added to this thread.
We've also invited Sev Necati to join the site. Sev runs the women's personal safety training locally. She's added a blog here.
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