Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

I hope all you who have the vote in Harringay will remember tonight ( and certainly other nights to come ) and at the next election vote out the incompetent shower responsible for the introduction of the LTN.

My weekly 5-minute journey from Wightman Road to Green Lanes took 45 minutes, including  30 minutes to go the length of Hampden Road. Yes, I know that there was a burst water main. But in happier times traffic would have been distributed across the roads now blocked off and not confined to Green Lanes. Yes, I know that I could have taken a bus to sit in the same traffic jam as I did this evening but in any case there aren't any buses between my house and the bottom of Effingham Road. 

I understand the concerns of those residents living in the LTN who hope that the pollution in their streets will be reduced but don't the residents of Green Lanes, Turnpike Lane and Wightman Road breathe ? don't their children have lungs ?. Where did the Council think the LTN traffic would go ? 

And please don't suggest to this disabled person that I could have cycled.  I couldn't.

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic

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I think the local businesses are playing a bit of a dangerous game here. The vast majority of local residents – the majority of their customers – support the LTNs for the health and environmental benefits that they bring. We all know that this current heat on Harringay Online is a loud, and motivated, but small minority of residents. Campaigning *against* the health and wellbeing of your customers doesn't seem to me a particularly clever policy. I just walked up Green Lanes, taking a straw poll of the shops I will think twice about using in future: the anti-LTN notices in the window being a handy barometer of the regard this business holds my health and the health of the planet. And it can't be just me who is thinking this. I was going to try the new Taco store until I saw their poster. People feel very strongly about this, either way, and will vote with their wallets. I'm all for shopping local, and try to whenever I can, but if my local store shows such disregard for my health and feelings, I just won't support it with my patronage. 

Rory — Would the minority of complainants here by any chance outnumber the tiny minority of 700 people who supported the St Ann’s LTN in the council’s “consultation”? Not sure that’s a “huge majority” in support out of a ward of about 14,000 people.

Hugh —I know this is the philosophy, but do you, as a Ladder resident, think the Gardens LTN has “settled in” after 20 years or so? From what I read on here, many others are still very exercised about the displaced traffic that’s transferred to the Ladder and Wightman. 

What are the planned minor adjustments to the new schemes?

I like the LTNs. It's much easier and safer to get around now they've been implemented. Sure, some adjustments would be beneficial, but on the whole it's made it nicer to live in Bowes Park.

I can't get out of my own ladder road, which opens onto Green Lanes, between 4-7pm every night unless I sit in the car for 30 minutes. I've actually had to go and move the car mid-afternoon and park on an 'uppy' road in order to be able to make a trip later. Luckily, I had the time to do this.

The new LTN has created a lot of division.

For all those who tell people to get out of their cars and walk or take public transport (most of which sits in the same queues at the moment), please consider if that is possible or not before telling people what to do. Different things are important / vital to different people.

For all those on 'uppy' roads that are not experiencing the horror of endless fumes and angry drivers, please spare a thought for your 'downy' friends who now have to deal with this...even if it does miraculously disappear in six months time.

These schemes always have 'winners and losers', so a bit of empathy wouldn't go amiss at the moment.

We'd all like there to be a solution that means less fumes, less rat runs and safer streets in general, so let's not get angry or 'take sides', let's try and be kind to each other and agree that this isn't a great situation for many people right now and have a bit of empathy.

Disincentivizing people from driving single occupancy vehicles is not 'telling people what to do.' We have all agreed (in community planning processes, at the city / national level) that pollution generating cars are extremely hazardous for health and injury. For example, on average 1% of the population dies in a car traffic incident, and 25% of deaths for people ages 15-19 are road traffic incidents. The roads (particularly with motor vehicles) are not safe. So you saying - let people live their life, actually infringes on my health and safety and my family's health and safety. Why is it fair that you get to burn oil, make smog and put me at risk just because that's what you want to do?

The LTN is one solution, and yes it takes adjusting to. It will be a big shift for many to learn to take new routes, decrease car use, and access public transport. But the point is it makes our community healthier and happier. Maybe you don't care about the carbon emissions from cars, but transportation is responsible 24% of UK emissions -the highest emitting sector. We need to get rid of cars to reduce carbon and also the air particulates that are very dangerous and lead to asthma and other respiratory diseases. Air pollution exposure for a significant / sustained period of time is very dangerous to health. Please think about the long run here, and not just how irritating it is to sit in traffic on Green Lanes. 

I have lived in Harringay for four years, and it always takes a ridiculous amount of time to turn onto Green Lanes, that's just the nature of our area - its extremely heavily trafficked. To say its due to the LTN is really unfounded. The area has always been extremely busy and no one drives quicky down St Annes Road or Green Lanes or by Turnpike. 

While a few vocal residents seem to feel the LTN has ruined what was a 'pleasant area to drive' - I would urge them to think hard about what the state of driving in Haringay was before the LTN with a more realistic lense. And also to consider a small sacrifice - walking/using the bus - instead of using the car for short haul trips. 

The point I was making was about trying to understand other people and their challenges and frustrations, which I think is reasonable enough. Having empathy generally makes things better in life as it brings shared understanding and shared resolution.

Thank you, Your Maj, you make an excellent point about showing some empathy for those who are facing the most challenges from these changes and who need support and a bit of understanding when they express their frustrations.

so if the LTNs are really about safety, why is more traffic being led down roads where most accidents happen in the area (ie boundary roads like West Green RD and Philip Lane). Why are no, really no additional safety measures being put in place in these roads for pedestrians and cyclists who often can't avoid these roads (like us who are wedged in-between 2 boundary roads and have no alternative but to take them). Why has our school situated on 2 boundary roads not even been contacted by Haringey council to implement the promised green screen? Why does the council say 'we've got no update' and nothing else when I complain about it? Why is the scrutiny panel ignoring that same question? Wake up, this is not about safety, not about the environment, it's a money making machine, nothing else!

From a cyclist perspective, it does feel pretty safe now. It’s just a matter of weaving past very slow  cars rather than them weaving around you. 

Tina, it's no more about safety than it was about the debunked increase in traffic flow. It's about peace and quiet.

And for those who suggest that having their roads turned into gated idylls is a vital step in 'saving the World' and its children, presenting false and fantastical stats to effect this is not a step too far. Allegra has either believed her outlandishly false statistics, or she has believed that others will.

For a little context, more 15-19 year olds died from alcohol-related illnesses last year than they did from all land transport fatalities. Neither represent even a tenth of the fake statistic she has cited. 

As for emissions, after years of LTNs having been implemented here and abroad, not a single reliable study can show a resulting reduction in carbon emissions from traffic.

As each justification is shown to be unfounded, they simply move on to the next one. But please think about the 'long run' Tina. Wait for their long run and it becomes too late to reverse these senseless 'experiments'.

Can you back up your claims that: (a) more 15-19 year olds died from alcohol-related illnesses last year than they did from all land transport fatalities and (b) not a single reliable study can show a resulting reduction in carbon emissions from traffic. Or a reliable study to show that carbon remains the same or increases? Otherwise, it seems you've rather done exactly what you condemn Allegra for.

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