Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Q&As about new garden waste charges
Dear Karen,
In September I sent five key questions to the Labour-run Council about their new garden waste charges. The council failed to answer my questions in the required 10 days. Having escalated this issue, I am now able to confirm their delayed reply to my queries, which I include below.
I am disappointed by Labour’s responses to my questions, which I believe do little to address the issues I raised. The Lib Dems will continue to press the Labour-run Council to listen to residents and their concerns about this new green waste charge.
Veolia have since confirmed to me on the phone that green waste collection will continue until the 30th November due to issues in the botched roll-out of this scheme.
We will keep you updated on whether the hessian sacks can be retained or not, and any further updates on the issue. The responses to my questions are as follows:
Lib Dem Q: Why can’t residents continue using the hessian sacks?
Labour A: Officers are working with Veolia to assess the viability of maintaining the hessian sacks in some capacity alongside the wheeled bins and biodegradable bags. There are, however, a number of operational challenges that this further option would present including an impact on the savings identified.
Lib Dem Q: Shouldn’t the council have made residents aware of the £55 a year bag option in their leaflet to residents?
Labour A: When residents called Veolia to sign up for the service the offer of a smaller bin or sacks was always available. Following the initial communications, we have listened to feedback from residents and have since made it clearer that other options are available. The alternative options are now highlighted on our website.
Lib Dem Q: Shouldn’t a Labour-run council be offering a reduced cost service to pensioners and those on low incomes?
Labour A: There are not currently any concessions planned for the chargeable waste services. It was felt that the number of pensioners, or those on low incomes, that may take up the service at a reduced cost service, would be so minimal, as to make the introduction of a concession unnecessary.
Lib Dem Q: Wouldn’t it be fairer for residents to be given the option to buy 20, 40 or 60 bags depending on how much garden waste they have?
Labour A: The service offers 60 sacks as this volume is equivalent to the wheeled bin service and has been designed to be comparable in price. The service charge is an annual charge for weekly collections rather than a price for 60 sacks (or less if residents don’t need as many as this). This means that if a resident runs out of sacks before the year’s end, they can opt to buy more sacks.
Lib Dem Q: What would the savings be if the Council maintained free garden waste collections but reduced the service to 2 weekly?
Labour A: It was felt that providing a charged, weekly green waste service maintained a level of continuity for residents who use this service. A charged, weekly service was also considered preferable than a universal fortnightly service because it targeted the residents specifically using the service as well as delivering greatest savings. A fortnightly green waste collection would also mean fortnightly collections of food waste (as the same lorry is used). This option was rejected at the time, and if weekly collections were maintained for food then it would not be possible to make operational savings on this service.
Kind regards,
Liz Morris
Liberal Democrats
Cllr Liz Morris
Lib Dem Deputy Leader of the Opposition
liz.morris@haringeylibdems.org
Tags for Forum Posts: garden waste
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by EMC2 on
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Karen, I'd heard there was a very low take-up on this paid-for service that may make it unviable. As today was all bins collection day I did an unscientific walk up and down my road (mostly houses, some split into flats so between 60 - 75 sets of bins) and the adjacent road (again mostly houses, with some split into flats so between 65 - 80 sets of bins). There was one brown bin in each road (no sacks or bags). If that is replicated across the borough can this service be viable?
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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Someone I work with was trying to convince me that putting my grass cuttings in with my general waste actually assists in the process of degrading waste in landfills. I found this reference on google: "There are three classes of bacteria and fungi that work to degrade garbage. Cellulolytic microbes initiate the process by breaking down the cellulose in paper, wood, and other plant wastes. Then acidogens ferment these sugars into acids, which methanogens then convert into methane gas and carbon dioxide." Does that amount to a good thing or not?
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Our black bin waste is burned not sent to landfill, so no gain here. And the paper should be going in the recycling bin, and wood would have gone to the wood recycling bin in the recycling centre in the olden days.
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Hi, we've opted in and paid for the 75l. Got the bin last Thu. It's half full with leaves, but wasn't collected this week! Anyone know when they empty them? Is it not the usual days for the collection (which is a Thu)?
I really dislike the idea, but felt compelled to sign up as we've got a large garden.
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Hi Tina
I just read your comment. If you email me with your details - zena.brabazon@haringey.gov.uk - I will chase this up.
Regarding the changes to green waste, I am of the view that this will not work, and that the Council will not make the projected income. I will continue to press for this to be monitored and reviewed since, if it isn't working, we should revisit this decision and genuinely review the cost benefit of this proposal.
All the best
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay Ward
Email: zena.brabazon@haringey.gov.uk
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The low takeup and increased dumping already suggests it just isn't viable. Either they should let people buy a much smaller number of sacks (since flats have smaller gardens hence less waste and hardly anyone wants a weekly g...w... collection throuh the winter) or they should set up 'bring sites' in some parks. Those people who don't want to pay or dump wil no doubt send their garden waste in black lid bins to landfill, so the extra landfill tax should be taken into account.
Easy to calculate that for every x households not paying the new charge, most will put the same volume of waste into their black lid bin as they used to put in the garden waste sacks. And a few will dump.
So if average garden waste collected per household used to be y kg per week, and say z% of households are now paying the new charge, the council will lose by the amount of landfill tax payable on (100-z) times y kg. Plus the cost of dealing with increased dumping. Both elements of increased cost should be set against the intended 'savings' from making the new charge. Landfill tax on high-methane-producing stuff like garden waste is probably chargeable at the higher rate of over £86 per tonne if the waste authority are able to identify it.
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Hi Anne
Quite clearly the Council should have consulted with you first regarding the impact on landfill. I wonder if this has even crossed anyone's mind so I will ask about it.
Like you I am pretty certain the scheme will not be viable and will need careful review. I think having a citizen review panel for this might be a good way forward as it could engage local residents who know about these issues (like you) and demonstrate a willingness by the Council to work collaboratively with residents in reviewing the impact and think more laterally about issues.
All the best
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay ward
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I there any collected record of how many £50 pickups of dumped waste were made by Veolia in the past year/ or up to the cutoff date for large item collection. Couldn't find this figure in the short-form explanations of the new scheme.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Hi Zena, anecdotally the takeup of brown bins seems to be 1-2% - one or two bins on every ladder rung, say.
It is difficult to imagine that the income from the households paying for this service exceeds the cost of collection. And that's without factoring in the additional costs of landfill tax or dealing with flytipping as others have mentioned.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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The cynic in me makes me think that Haringey don’t want this to be a success. If the take up remains low I can see the service being withdrawn and the collection of garden waste becoming part of the one off, bulk waste collection service (so you end up paying per collection rather than an annual fee). I suppose they’ll make their savings that way.
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Perhaps, though that'll be needing more call centre staff dealing with all those one-off calls.
It's late autumn and gardens have gone quiet. Why would I start paying for a bin now when I won't be putting garden waste in it till March/April next year.
I'd expect them to be leafleting again in the spring and summer if they're serious about improving the takeup.
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Permalink Reply by Alyson on
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Tina, I guess that they are not geared up to empty the brown bins yet, because the collection of white garden waste bags has been extended to Nov 30th (because they didn't get the payment system up and running in time!). I've reluctantly opted in and received my bags, but still putting out my tough white bag for now.
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