Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Parking Permit Consultation
Dear Permit Holder,
Haringey Council is proposing to increase parking permit prices and introduce surcharges to diesel fuelled vehicles. These proposed changes will help to reduce parking pressures, congestion, reduce carbon emissions and improve air quality.
The statutory consultation which starts on Wednesday 3 June, will run for a period of 21 days, closing on Wednesday 24 June, and proposes the following changes:
- Parking permits – a £10 increase across all existing parking permits to support the significant costs of running, maintaining and enforcing our parking infrastructure.
- Additional parking permits – A £50 surcharge on second and subsequent permits to reduce car ownership, promote active travel and more sustainable modes of travel.
- Diesel fuelled vehicles – An £80 surcharge for diesel fuelled vehicles to highlight the impact of diesel emissions on local air quality and influence cleaner future vehicle choices.
- On-street pay-to-park and off-street car parks – a 25% surcharge to on-street pay-to-park areas and off-street car parks to discourage short trips within the borough.
- Visitor permits – households would be limited to no more than two daily visitor permits at any one time. Daily visitor permits would increase to £4 across all CPZ areas. A concessionary rate discount of 50% will be applied to the visitor permit charge for those aged 65 or over, or if registered disabled.
- Disabled Blue Badge Holders – a free residential permit for Disabled Blue Badge Holders to replace the companion badge scheme and the requirement to display that permit.
- Administration Fee for parking permit refunds – the council is proposing a £20 administration fee on processing parking permit refunds. It is also proposed that visitor scratch cards shall become non-refundable.
If the proposed changes are agreed by the council in September 2020, the new prices would be introduced in November 2020. For more information on these proposals, please visit our current parking consultations page.
Please email us at frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk if you have any comments on the proposals.
We would also like to take this opportunity to let you know that parking enforcement will be resuming soon and we will update Haringey residents once a date has been agreed.
Kind regards,
Frontline Consultation
Tags for Forum Posts: parking
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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I'm not advocating either petrols or diesels. I think the point is that the higher CO2 for the petrol engine is being picked up by the current pricing structure.
I think Euro6 rules do allow higher NOx and particulate emissions for diesels.
Certainly, £31 for a quite large diesel engine is cheap and arguably a little anomalous.
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Permalink Reply by Oliver on
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I do get what you mean and I'm not advocating one or other either. All I'm trying to say is you could have a diesel with lower CO2, CO, THC and NOx than a petrol car and yet still pays £80 more.
That serves to penalise the driver of the cleaner car. It incentivises them to consider a dirtier car. That cannot be the intention of the rules and is a significant flaw in what's proposed.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Barker on
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I agree. The surcharge shouldn't just relate to diesels but to all the most heavily polluting cars, particularly SUVs which should have no place on London streets.
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Agreed - it makes no sense.
There is however on online form (although not much better than an email)
https://wh1.snapsurveys.com/s.asp?k=148214374232
Hope that helps
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Permalink Reply by Bob Ruggles on
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I have had Diesel vehicles, in the past which was always loaded on permit cost
Following my van being broken into so many times it got written off
I picked up a old Taxi as a run around. As a old one the Road Tax and Permit cost stopped it from being a viable run around
Now got a petrol car
We keep hearing that due to Government Cuts that the Council, it has to raise funds elsewhere
What seems to be forgotten is that over the years the number of increased residents within the Borough Not All are Rich or Poor . With many large houses turned into flats and Houses into rooms. Not forgetting All the Flat tower blocks Haringey has within it catchment area
Not forgetting Haringey has some of London's most expensive properties within its catchment area
So there should be a massive increase in Rate income. Not forgetting that the Council has reduced so many Services and put so many other services out to Contract
Yet seems to have a Wage Bill that seems to for ever grow. Especially in High Salary packages
Which seems to be rewarding Council Employees for running such a reduced Local Authority
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The £10 flat increase seems a strange way of doing it. You'd think a percentage increase would be more equitable (although those with expense permits may disagree so maybe not).
The visitor permits thing seems like a way of trying to fix their previous cock-up where they changed from a quota of permits to being able to buy unlimited permits. I've no idea how they're planning to enforce it, I guess they'll somehow have to add a unique code to each household's purchases.
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With virtual visitor permits, you (the resident) have to buy a quantity in advance, then on the day or shertly before give your visitor(s) car registration number(s) in order to activate the permit. At least you do in Barnet from what I can gather from their video.
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broadly, i'd be in favour of that (except it would be good to hear from older residents who are most in need of visitor permits perhaps)
but if that is the case, Haringey need to make it clear. It's obvious by the answers to this thread that no one really knows what it means.
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I assumed from the reference to scratch cards becoming non-refundable that we wouldn't be moving onto a virtual system yet.
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So each diesel car in London costs the NHS £16000 in health costs over its lifetime
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/cars-air-pollution-cost-n...
The average lifespan of a car is 8 years. So with my calculator....that makes £2,000 year costs in health. £1000 for petrol
Are the additional benefits of diesel £1920 per year for a diesel car? What is this magical fuel of productivity?
While Haringey council works out basic economics whilst listening to Status Quo, we all get to pick up the tab through our taxes. That health cost will not go away. Let's do this properly LBH. Diesel cars should pay a lot more. Oh and it might help with some of those other costs.
The evidence is pretty clear. LBH staff drive diesel cars :)
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Diesels cause far less damage to health because it is NOx which is the culprit here and diesels emit far less of it. However the other issue is global warming and here petrol is worse because it emits for more CO2. So both need to be penalised.
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I work a lot with the problems caused by diesel pollution in many industries. This is simple economics cost v benefit. It is unfair to dismiss costs on the basis on cognitive dissonance (just because it doesn't sit right with lifestyle). The costs are well-known and it is wrong to suggest they are small without providing evidence. So who pays? Me? Everyone? We should all pay for health treatment for poor air because some people don't give a hoot?
I assure you the burning of diesel in cities is very harmful and beyond oxides of nitrogen (for instance PM2.5 PM5).
There are many pollutants which the burning of diesel in cities releases. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10098-014-0793-9#:~:text...
The costs of this are well known to health and are direct to Haringey residents (you burn it here, you feel it here)
I agree with the point on petrol, but that's the case for all carbon intensive fuels.
I just feel I pay for diesel car costs and that's unfair. Perhaps you would feel the same about Covid and people not abiding to rules for health. It's the same rationale. We just want to protect our health and society. It costs us money. The people who cause the cost should pay for it.
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