Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
How old do you have to be to walk down to the shops by yourself?
My son was stopped on Green Lanes by what he described as a Police Officer on Friday when he was walking down to meet a friend. He is a LOT cooler than me though so when they asked him where he was going he didn't tell them to go away nicely, he told them he was going to see his child minder. This was technically a lie, he was just going to meet an adult.
What if he'd said "go away nicely" or "I'm off to put a tanner on Everton and buy two cans of Tennents and some cigs for my dad" or more reasonably, "I'm going to see some friends"? He's nine and a half.
I do know that the law in this country basically treats the police as child catchers: if they catch them, they can take them away. If you're at home without an adult and draw attention to yourself to the extent that they are called to your house, they will make an assessment and perhaps take you into custody until they can find your "so called parents".
Are children trapped inside on their X-Boxes until they're adults or their parents move to the home counties? Was this just another example of over-policing? Do they stop the little scrotes intimidating teenagers young men who sail down the passage on BMX bikes looking at you like they're king of the world and ask them what they're doing?
Son of course said to me "don't say anything to anyone dad, it's cool, I handled it". Does this mean I'm wrong as we just play the game with authority rather than question it?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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How old do you have to be to walk down to the shops by yourself?
Well, the woman I live with asks me that question every morning. I think she wants me to shift the old butt and get the dinner stuff in before I hit 80.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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John. Funny you ask this. We are having this debate about our soon to be 10 year old. We have come firmly down on the 'she is old enough' side of the argument. When I was nine I was taking a bus into my provincial town centre, going to the library (Tintin and Asterix the Gaul), getting books out and getting myself home.
We seem to have a fear in London (and elsewhere?) about letting kids out of our sight. I am not sure if we are worried the kids would be kidnapped by some kiddie fiddler, or run over. Interestingly we let our kids play out a lot, relatively unsupervised- something I think teaches a healthily respect for being near a road. I did this as a kid, as did lots of my friends. A few months back my wife ended up in a conversation with a community copper (cannot remember the correct term for them CPSO?). She was trying to convince my wife that having the kids out in the street was not a good idea, and when challenged as to why this was so there was some sort of half arsed justification. At one point the officer suggested that we did not know who was on the streets and what might happen- to which my wife asked if there was someone in our community we should know about, putting our kids at risk. As far as I know child abduction rates are pretty much at the same level they were in the Victorian era, contrary to what we are told in the media. It was such a BS situation.
I also know a neighbour who has had a knock on the door because his kids were in the street (with mine). Apparently, this lovely guy was reported to social services. This report by some over zealous petty official will stay with him throughout his life!
We seems to want to wrap our kids up these days, scared witless something will befall them. Well we can keep them inside, growing fat, watching too much TV or playing games increasingly depended on adults to supervise or provide fun or distraction and growing increasingly fearful of the outside world and interactions with the folks outside our family units and society!!!
One other thing, when did it become official Met policy that families should be encouraged to lock up our kids- or is what we are seeing an extension of the individual officer's personal preferences for their on child. If a kid is truly at risk or a danger to themselves, fine, but beyond that, leave them be.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I do feel despair when I see kids in my neighbourhood going front door to car and then car to front door. I initially grew up in the countryside and went wandering with mates from 8 years old. When we moved to a big town my parents saw no need to change that and when I was only a bit older and had the busfare, I'd travel miles to the seaside with kids my own age. The worry about kids being out by themselves does become infectious though and I sometimes catch myself frowning when I see someone who looks below teenage years walking down my street by themseleves and have to remind myself that I did exactly the same.
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Permalink Reply by katherinejane on
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A subject close to my heart! Check out this blog...
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Thanks for that interesting link. I read though Lenore Skenazy's blog entry before following the links she gave. So I didn't discover before the last paragraph, the "reveal" about whose 9-year-old daughter walks to school in Toronto.
For other people following this up, here's the New York Sun webpage from 2008 which seems to have broken the story. And the TV interview on NBC with mother and son - and a disapproving psychologist.
Lenore Skenazy left her own 9 year old son in the handbag department of Bloomingdale's Manhattan with a train ticket to get home. Luckily it wasn't to Worthing.
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Permalink Reply by Sharon on
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I'd want to contact the police and find out why your son was questioned, he handled the situation well. I think it's important to encourage independence and if you have a confident and smart child who wants to go a short distance in his own neighbourhood then that's great. Good parenting. I really think it's important for kids to feel part of where they live and not to be fearful. In a couple of years your son will be going taking himself off to secondary school won't he? I think kids take these things at their own pace. I had to take my middle child to school until the end of year 6 but my youngest daughter banned me from the school premises in year 4!
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Permalink Reply by HarringayBirder on
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I would like to suggest a slightly different way of looking at it: that one perhaps should be pleased that PCSOs (I assume that's what he was - and BTW they say Police Community Support Officer on their epaulettes) patrolling our locality are keeping an eye out for younger members of the community. We have seen today what happens when police and councils turn a blind eye to the risks children face.
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Sorry John
I should have made it clear - as I believe you were or may have been asking the legal position - that there is no minimum age. A child commits no offence going out alone; an adult may commit an offence if he allows his child out at an age where he cannot look after himself.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I am aware of the legal position.
I am agog that you can draw a comparison between a boy walking in a determined manor down a high street that happens to be patrolled by PCSOs and what I see in the papers today about child abuse in Rotherham. As you were, I'll keep him in the house on his Wii.
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Why? Because someone on an internet forum gave an opinion which you didn't like? Point is, I would rather the police noticed our kids and looked out for them. Years ago in this country neighbourhood police knew the local kids and their names and so would know, for instance, IG they were often out on their own - or if, alternatively, something might be wrong. A return to such a situation would be very welcome as far as I'm concerned.
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No, because you drew a comparison between walking down the street and being abused and then ignored by the police because you were in institutionalised care.
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indeed I did. I'm still surprised that would induce you to decide to keep your kid indoors.
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