Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Traffic: Thoughts, Problems, Solutions
I have been on HoL for many years but I have been stunned recently by how many posts there have been on traffic and traffic related issues in the last 3-6 months. In terms of issues of the day for our community this is clearly huge!
I was just posting on a different thread and it occurred to me that we need to try to draw together some of our collective knowledge and experience in order to try to do more than collectively shout into the internet to vent our spleens.
As you may be aware the council have taken a pretty brave step in recognising the collective mismanament of our roads in the last 20 years. The sustainability of piecemeal closing or alteration of the road traffic network so that traffic is concentrated on an ever diminishing number of roads to the detriment of those communities and the political myopia (indeed active intervention) that has allowed Wightman Road to become a defacto trunk road has been highlighted by the closure over such a long term of the railway bridge on Wightman.
This is the issue the Green Lanes Traffic Study will aim to address. Its first Stakeholder Group meeting is to be help on Thursday 9th June. This is one of the forums through which residents will be able to feedback their views. There are several organisations that will be part of the Steering Group (see the Terms of Reference doc for the membership as of May, this may change). If you care about what is happening, you should feed your views in through the various members that may best represent your area, Gardens, Hermitage, Woodlands Park, Ladder, HoL, Wightman Rd, etc, or your councillor.
In the mean time I wanted try to do three things. I want to draw together people's experiences in order to:
1- Hear the anecdotal thoughts occurring to you.
- I have head people say they are now happier sending their kids from the northern part of the Ladder to South Harringay for swimming lessons
- People have remarked that there is less fly tipping
- It seems the traffic that is moving up and down the Ladder (rung roads and Wightman) is moving in a far more considerate way- its less aggressive
- Traffic on GL and Turnpike is more aggressive, blocking crossings
2- Try to frame the myriad of problems, before and after the closure.
- 120k vehicles a week on Wightman (pre closure)
- Houses being shaken to pieces by HGVs (pre closure)
- Inability of traffic to turn out of Turnpike Lane in the GL leading to congestion (post closure)
- Busses not moving on GL (post closure)
- Increased congestion on GL and the time taken to get from A to B (post closure)
3- Identify solutions and ideas (however nutty)
- Close Wightman completely
- Introducing a pricing mechanisms for vehicle using local roads
- Better traffic management interventions to get folks out of cars in going to their places of worship or taking their kids to school
- Improved or altered road infrastructure to allow traffic to run more freely and not be held at pinch points
- Clear parking out of the bus route on GL
In the ideas one or more of you will throw out will be part of the solution, and while the Stakeholder Group is not a decision making body, at least this is a forum where these ideas can be heard!
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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It will go on the list. All ideas welcome.
One point I will make is think about the consequences and mitigation (as I tried to do with the example of the Traders above)...
Also bear in mind the fact the stretches of GL are regulated by TFL, not the council!
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Permalink Reply by andy h on
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Ok , Green lanes pedestrianized blocking all roads at the lanes. The bottom of all adjoining roads for deliveries (morning only) and customers for the rest of the day and evening (this could be free to encourage trade)All roads open at the other end. Which would mean no through roads anywhere. Wightman and woodlands would need to be blocked at one end
Buses I grant you would need some serious rerouting. But, I'm not averse to bussing via finsbury park or wood green to get to crouch end/muzzie hill or the Hale
Might encourage me to walk.
TFL would be a tough nut to crack though.
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The road splitting in St Anns leading to 3 traffic lights rather than what should be one. A similar thing happens at West Green road although that may be more necssary due to the geometry.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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The St Anne's junction needs a compete rethink. I'd want to see an end to Salisbury Road being used as a one way street to Green Lanes and for the action all to move to the junction at the Salisbury. When you're traveling north on GL the crawl tends to end after the Salisbury so something is obviously seriously rubbish about the way it's configured at the moment.
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Yes, two sets of traffic lights less than 20 vehicle-lengths* apart at Salisbury Rd and St Ann's Road are one of the impediments along Green Lanes.
*I make it c. 100 metres. Chuck in a bus or two and a delivery lorry and the vehicle count goes down.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Good to get all the ideas gathered in one place.
Just to clarify on one issue. When I outlined the road pricing solution to you and the group as well as on my post about present-day turnpikes, it was one only possible application of the central idea which is 'electronic road barriering'.
Traffic management measures on other roads in the area suggest that physical road barriers are Haringey's preferred traffic reduction solution. What I'm suggesting is to update that methodology, so reducing the ongoing maintenance costs (such as exist in the Gardens) and to offer a much more flexible solution.
Automatic number plate recognition is currently used to manage parking in, for example Morrisons car parks. It wouldn't seem impossible for such a solution to be implemented on a contracted out basis for our local roads. It's at least worth talking to some of the operators of such systems to check out the economics.
An APNR system or similar could be used to create a total electronic barrier to all but residents and service vehicles, or it could be more flexible, for example allowing some level of access to all Harringay and Haringey residents, perhaps differentially. Once the system is in place any number of permutations would be possible.
It's been suggested to me that the cost wouldn't work on a such a small scale. Whilst that may ultimately prove to be the case, I'm far from convinced. If you sub-contract to an operator, like those who manage the Morrisons car parks, they already have most of the infrastructure and admin in place. The only additional cost would be installing the cameras (and that need only be the same number as the current number of concrete road blocks) along with any ongoing maintenance. Revenue levels from the Hewitt no-right-turn camera suggest that much, if not all, of the implementation cost could quickly be offset by enforcement fines. In the longer term, this may also prove to be sufficient or it may be expedient to introduce some from of road pricing to make it viable. The Gardens barriers could also be replace with a similar system with cost savings made there too.
If successful, the scheme would no doubt be replicated in other areas of the borough and across London and other cities. This would mean that, whilst Ladder residents might benefit as residents in Harringay, there may well be a downside when in the longer term we're penalised as rat runners in other areas. (Apologies to those who dislike the use of the term rat runner).
I'm sure that there are all sorts of complexities to be considered and, although the idea is new, it warrants serious consideration. It could be a great compromise solution allowing the savage road use of Wightman to be replaced with much more moderate road use, so reducing the congestion experienced during the road closure at the pinch-points, whilst respecting the health and wellbeing needs of residents.
Back in 1963 Harringay was pioneering another sort of traffic control. Perhaps it's time for us to step up to the plate again!
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Make green lanes a red route with 24 hr bus lanes in both directions and cycle super highways
Close and gate Endymion road, Wightman road, all ladder and gardens roads like they have in Finsbury Park road and the network of roads north of the park.
Expedite plans to remodel the arena shopping centre. Remove all car parking provision, drive thru restaurant and petrol station.
Close full length of hermitage road to avoid ratrunning through warehouse district.
More radical - close green lanes to all motor traffic and reintroduce tram service like the one in Croydon.
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Permalink Reply by ThaiDi on
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+1 on the Green Lanes red route - it's been mentioned before, as has the getting rid of car parking. Green Lanes north of the overground station is horrendous to cycle along.
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Yes, I remember attending a public meeting about it way back. There was a lot of support locally but it was scuppered by the traders association at the time.
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Permalink Reply by Peter Chalk on
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All great ideas. I do not understand why the Council is not taking the opportunity to engage with this debate! I would add an outer London congestion charge to the list.
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