Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Traffic: Thoughts, Problems, Solutions
I have been on HoL for many years but I have been stunned recently by how many posts there have been on traffic and traffic related issues in the last 3-6 months. In terms of issues of the day for our community this is clearly huge!
I was just posting on a different thread and it occurred to me that we need to try to draw together some of our collective knowledge and experience in order to try to do more than collectively shout into the internet to vent our spleens.
As you may be aware the council have taken a pretty brave step in recognising the collective mismanament of our roads in the last 20 years. The sustainability of piecemeal closing or alteration of the road traffic network so that traffic is concentrated on an ever diminishing number of roads to the detriment of those communities and the political myopia (indeed active intervention) that has allowed Wightman Road to become a defacto trunk road has been highlighted by the closure over such a long term of the railway bridge on Wightman.
This is the issue the Green Lanes Traffic Study will aim to address. Its first Stakeholder Group meeting is to be help on Thursday 9th June. This is one of the forums through which residents will be able to feedback their views. There are several organisations that will be part of the Steering Group (see the Terms of Reference doc for the membership as of May, this may change). If you care about what is happening, you should feed your views in through the various members that may best represent your area, Gardens, Hermitage, Woodlands Park, Ladder, HoL, Wightman Rd, etc, or your councillor.
In the mean time I wanted try to do three things. I want to draw together people's experiences in order to:
1- Hear the anecdotal thoughts occurring to you.
- I have head people say they are now happier sending their kids from the northern part of the Ladder to South Harringay for swimming lessons
- People have remarked that there is less fly tipping
- It seems the traffic that is moving up and down the Ladder (rung roads and Wightman) is moving in a far more considerate way- its less aggressive
- Traffic on GL and Turnpike is more aggressive, blocking crossings
2- Try to frame the myriad of problems, before and after the closure.
- 120k vehicles a week on Wightman (pre closure)
- Houses being shaken to pieces by HGVs (pre closure)
- Inability of traffic to turn out of Turnpike Lane in the GL leading to congestion (post closure)
- Busses not moving on GL (post closure)
- Increased congestion on GL and the time taken to get from A to B (post closure)
3- Identify solutions and ideas (however nutty)
- Close Wightman completely
- Introducing a pricing mechanisms for vehicle using local roads
- Better traffic management interventions to get folks out of cars in going to their places of worship or taking their kids to school
- Improved or altered road infrastructure to allow traffic to run more freely and not be held at pinch points
- Clear parking out of the bus route on GL
In the ideas one or more of you will throw out will be part of the solution, and while the Stakeholder Group is not a decision making body, at least this is a forum where these ideas can be heard!
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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We will have to make you honorary members of the Ladder.
Seriously though, that geographic and political isolation you are seeing is why Salisbury road is the way it is...
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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(Comment originally made by HoL member on reposted under HoL name following member's departure from site)
Exactly so. But it has to change. If the GRA is not interested (and they didn't even reply to my phone message or e-mail), is there actually some way we could come in with you?
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(Comment originally made by HoL member on reposted under HoL name following member's departure from site)
Thank you Justin.
If the GRA doesn't represent Salisbury Road, where does that leave us?
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(Comment originally made by HoL member - reposted under HoL name following member's departure from site)
I have tried to make contact with the Gardens Residents organisation (phone, e-mail) to find out whether Salisbury Road is represented by them, as you suggested - but no reply. Can I ask you at HoL to make my views known at the Stakeholder/Steering Group meeting tomorrow?
To summarize: it seems to me - and happily it appears I am not alone - that we should push for the final stretch of St. Ann's Road to be the main thoroughfare and NOT Salisbury Road. As I said in my earlier post, I suggest we do away with the current, baffling arrangement by the Salisbury pub and just have a 'proper' road, with the possibility of turning left and right at the top. All traffic that wants to head south on Green Lanes from St. Ann's should turn left at the top of St. Ann's and not even enter Salisbury Road. Please see Michael Anderson's post below for support.
Ideally Salisbury Road would then have a residents only barrier/bollard like Cleveland Gardens and Warwick Gardens. This would not only improve the quality of life of Salisbury Road residents immeasurably, but also, as Michael says, 'alleviate the congestion at the Salisbury/Warham/Green Lanes crossroads and get rid of the pinch point that really holds up traffic both north and southbound'.
I would be very grateful if you could mention this on my behalf tomorrow.
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(Comment originally made by HoL member - reposted under HoL name following member's departure from site)
Thank you Hugh.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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(Made in reply to a comment form a now departed member, reposted here, below, by site admin)
You're spot on XX. As well as causing a nightmare for the people who live there, the junction with Green Lanes is one of the issues that really needs unpicking. It has always felt like pushing vehicles along Salisbury Road was a ploy to get them to shoot straight over GL and then up Warham and onto Wightman (declaration of interest here, I live on Warham). I think a better configured, two way junction at St Annes has the potential to give the people of Salisbury Road a better quality of life, alleviate the congestion at the Salisbury/Warham/Green Lanes crossroads and get rid of the pinch point that really holds up traffic both north and southbound.
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Permalink Reply by michaelw on
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The other extraordinary thing about that end of St Anne's road is the fact that parts of it have no 'Green Man' pedestrian crossing, despite the recent refurbishment. I don't quite understand how or why this happened.
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(Comment originally made by HoL member - reposted under HoL name following member's departure from site)
Justin, I quite agree that the traffic issue for our community is huge and that we need to pool our knowledge and experience to try and achieve real change. Could you tell me please how to get in touch with the Gardens representative before your meeting on Thursday? (I am new to HoL - we came to Harringay a year and a half ago - so please forgive my ignorance.)
Perhaps I have just not seen the posts, but has anyone yet mentioned Salisbury Road? Though minuscule in comparison with Wightman Road, it is every bit as destroyed by traffic as Wightman was before the recent pleasant changes. And every bit as deserving of peace and clean air.
The traffic lights at the junction with Green Lanes ensure that vehicles are not just passing through, but frequently stationary and perfectly positioned to belch lung-destroying particles through our windows.
The buses (341) are not hybrids and their fume-belching is thus continuous.
And, aside from the engine noise and the fumes, there is the music from the stationary cars: loud, endless, sleep-slaughtering. (Is this just me?)
You say, quite rightly, that 'traffic is concentrated on an ever diminishing number of roads': would it not be possible to share the Gardens' traffic burden a little more equally? Cleveland Gardens and Warwick Gardens, as a result I assume of some earlier attempt to sort out the traffic problems of Harringay, are barred to through traffic from St. Ann's Road and everything that wants to get to Green Lanes south of the Salisbury pub, everything, comes up Salisbury Road.
If it proves too unpopular to re-open those two streets, what about simply making the last stretch of St. Ann's Road a 'normal' road to its junction with Green Lanes, with the possibility of turning left and right at the top? Am I not right in thinking that it used to be that way relatively recently? The current layout, though well intentioned I'm sure, is just absurd.
Having done that, perhaps Salisbury Road could also have a delightful card-controlled barrier system in place, returning it to some semblance of a residential street. I don't think there are as many residential buildings on that last stretch of St. Ann's as there are on Salisbury Road, are there? If I am wrong and St. Ann's were to feel as aggrieved as Salisbury does now, what about some sort of sharing? Three months on, three months off? It's a thought.
I would welcome your thoughts.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Responding to 1 ("the anecdotal thoughts occurring to you"), I wonder if I'm alone* in having purchased a bike shortly after the Wightman Road bridgeworks started, simply in order to enjoy the phenomenon of a bike-safe 1 mile stretch of road?
Background - I bought a bike when I first moved to south London in the late 80s, and was happy to cycle between Wandsworth and Blackfriars each day for work. But when I moved to the Ladder, I gave the bike away. The thought of a cycling journey which started on either Wightman Road or Green Lanes was just not appealing. Subsequent "traffic calming" measures on Wightman Road (such as a 20mph speed limit, island chicanes, a couple of traffic-lit pedestrian crossings) have not made it any better.
It would be truly wonderful if there is a way to prevent Wightman Road returning to being, as you put it, a "de facto trunk road", without too much impact on those making non-discretionary car journeys in the wider area.
* I probably am, although I am certainly seeing a lot more bikes on Wightman Road than before the works began.
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Salisbury road probably suffers the most, I feel for the residents when I am on the 341 (those buses are outdated and should be replaced). That's another road I'd like to see gated off. For the record I live in the gardens and have no desire to see the bollards reopened. It would destroy the community that has sprung up and is an oasis away from the traffic clogged green lanes. More importantly reopening the gardens would create even more traffic mayhem on green lanes as vehicles nudge out across the lane.
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There was a consultation recently to permanently close the bollards on Warwick and replace with a landscaped garden and cycle lane similar to the one near Butterfield green in Dalston. Unfortunately the plans are shelved for now due to the ongoing traffic review - a real shame as the plans looked great.
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