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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

As everyone seems to know how to solve the traffic flow system why don't you have a go at re-flowing the traffic from North to South and East to West to see if any valid solutions can be found, other than not using your car!

Closing off roads isn’t in my opinion an option and only increases traffic flow to our neighbouring areas.

Also attached is how I think could improve traffic flow, in addition to that:

• Width restrictors, two say two per road (flower beds).
• Narrower entrances to the roads (flower beds).
• Speed humps should stay, or be replaced by level topped humps.

I have not taken into account no right/left turns.

There is a blank JPEG for you to mark your one ways.

Tags for Forum Posts: Ladder traffic solutions, Wightman Road, speed humps, traffic

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Birdy, I suspect that the people I bought my house in the lovely quiet village of Lausanne from saw the consultation, saw it for what it really was and promptly put the house on the market. Only SOME of us have speed humps outside our houses and hence only SOME of us see them as a problem.

It has not "improved" the traffic situation on the ladder, just allowed it to carry more traffic.

Criticising is not evil. Valid solutions that have been touted and shot down by you include rolling back the myriad of changes implemented over the past however many years. People get in their cars/trucks and travel past our houses because it's preferable to the alternatives.

My street and many others around us, despite being classed as residential are obviously juicy short cuts for traffic. This helps flow which was even a goal of Mr Livingstone's.

I don't see "distributing the traffic" as working, it will just mean we fit more traffic on our roads. We need to reduce the amount of traffic, your plan does nothing in this respect.

With all due respect.
Birdy, we seem to be at cross purposes here perhaps. The issue I wrote about above referred to the schemes to close off Hermitage Road and the Gardens. Both of those have brought more traffic on the Ladder.

I have never sought a solution for just for my road Birdy. Absolutely not. In fact the complete opposite. I've taken great pains to ensure that I've never used this site to do that. In any event, it would be pointless. No administration could implement such a scheme. My "personal crusade" as you chose to call it, is about quality of life for all Ladder residents. And I carry my crusader's banner with pride.

My ultimate goal would be to reduce traffic across the Ladder. In the interim, rather than just accept, as some do, that certain roads should suffer disproportionately as a result if the local traffic changes, I'd seek a fair distribution of traffic across all the Ladder roads until the total; volume of traffic can be reduced.

I've explained before one way this could happen. Certain roads fall on desire paths. So, identify the desire paths and re-jig the one ways to split traffic across several roads.

So, for example, you identified Burgoyne as a badly affected road. If the direction of the traffic in roads to either side of it were changed to match Burgoyne's the traffic currently using Burgoyne would naturally divide itself into the three roads. That could be replicated up the Ladder, grouping the roads in threes or fours. It probably wouldn't be welcomed by people in roads with little traffic, but it would be fair. It would share the problem evenly.

But, hey, I'm not a traffic expert. I recognise that. I'm clear on the principles that underpin what I seek. I'm happy to come up with ideas, but I'll leave the solutioning up to the experts.
Well if you see my map, that is what I have done, but whether you would see a massive reduction, I don't know, as you say that is for the experts.

@ John With all due respect you never lived here with the previous system, so I find it difficult to accept what your saying as I did live here before and I can say it has definately improved the traffic situation, something I experienced, something you didn't. Lausanne as with others was never a quiet little road unless you go back to the turn of last century, we live in a city! something some people cannot grasp. I agree that one of the main problems is the illegal heavy traffic on the Ladder, that was there before too and the council have not done much about that. having road narrowing devices could be effective.

Can you please point where I have shot down any solutions touted about, this is the very purpose of this thread? You have not offered one idea if how this could be achieved. Re-routing could be effective so discounting it is negative as you are as much as an expert as myself, I chose to through ideas into the ring, you chose to moan and offer no alternatives - no difference there. Do you want your road completely gated?

Now go back and read both our posts and see what you have brought to this discussion in the way of suggestions. BTW have I said I have a hump right outside my house?
I've lived here since March 2001. It was two-way and saw no HGV traffic as far as I can recall, they just would not bother, it would be quicker around the lights.

Birdy, any "alleviation" of the problem will just be soaked up by more people deciding that it's worth it to drive. Is that something you can see?

Because of the way Wightman slopes down to the lights at Turnpike Lane the traffic is going quite fast there so mine is the last street it is easy enough to make a right hand turn out of. I don't think the council have put any less effort into this than we have, I think they're stuck for things to do, as are we.

Congestion charging.

You were younger in 2001, you didn't have children and you hadn't got a Masters in Wingeometry : ) so you didn't notice as much. A mate said to me that you notice and moan more as you get older and I think he's correct.

Maybe Lausanne wasn't on the HGV route then? Allison Road certainly had plenty of legal and illegal lorries up and down it taking several wing mirrors and damaging many cars frequently. If that system would have remained I wouldn't be in Harringay today.

Unlike yourself I do think there are things we can do to help this situation, but it is never going to be wonderful, sad fact of life if you want something that is not on offer you'll have to move to your four bedded Barratt in Bucks.

As there aren't any suggestions coming out I think we'll have to wait and see what happens after the local elections to whether a survey materialises and whether that can shed any new proposals.

I've tried to put a pint of Pride in a half pint pot, but it just dunna fit!

I've been a dad since 1999, I just age better than you.

I've been interested in traffic etc (including my super powers re: memorising license plates) since I was very young.

If we "improve" the situation we'll just encourage more people to drive.

I think you're just being a contrary northerner.
"My ultimate goal would be to reduce traffic across the Ladder. "

A typo perhaps? Surely we need at the very least to be thinking about how to reduce traffic across Harringay?
Yes, good call David. I was responding to a point comparing one road in the Ladder vs, the whole Ladder. So please take my comments in that context. I certainly didn't mean to exclude the rest of Harringay which is why I'm a long time supporter of a Harringay-wide traffic survey.

(Phew, gonna put my tin helmet on soon!)
There seems to be two issues, 1/ the amount of traffic 2/ the speed. I would like to deal with the second. (Sorry just realised that this is more to do with flow so maybe this in in the wrong forum).
I think that the ladder roads and Wightman Road need to have the 'feel' of residential roads so that people driving through will identify them as such rather than as anonymous rat runs. Having width restrictors with flower beds (and trees), narrowed entrance, and level topped humps would help with this. I also like chicanes but they bring other problems,
I think that at the site of Harringay Passage on all ladder roads there should be zebra crossings on top of level topped humps, not only for the safety of children etc using the Passage to go to school but to reinforce to drivers that pedestrians walk here and have rights.
In Islington they have 20 mph signs with pictures drawn by children (similar to those on the passage encouraging dog walkers to pick up their dogs mess) I think this is another good idea to reinforce that this is a residential area with lots of children.
I suffer from regular earthquakes from lorries going over the humps but they did slow the traffic down and stopped boy racers zooming up (and down) on motor bikes and cars at all hours which happened before. I think the speed of traffic has increased since the humps have gone from Warham, I stood outside for twenty minutes this afternoon and ended up shouting at some of the passing cars that the limit is 20 mph.
While I've been typing this there has been a lot of beeping outside, this was caused by a good citizen keeping to the 20mph limit followed by vexed drivers angrily tooting their horns.
It might be a bad idea to make Hampden Road westbound. There used to be horrendous accidents at the junction of Hampden and Wightman, apparently because, in the old two way-system, drivers heading westward on Hampden were fooled by the extension across to the railway station and didn't realise that they were about to cross the path of someone coming along Wightman.

Once the one-way system was introduced, with traffic on Hampden routed eastwards, accidents at this junction reduced from one a week to virtually none in the last few years.
One thing that strikes me about this interesting exercise set up by Birdy is that it should have been done by the council.
The trouble with paper consultations through doors is that they tend to get very few people replying and people often don't have time to consider the alternatives.

If there had been a series of outside round tables like this online one in the offline world, e.g. set up a table on various roads by the Harringay Passage and on suitable spots on Wightman and Green Lanes (so that people could have the traffic in front of them) on a number of Saturdays and send out the times when they would be happening -crucially emphasise that people from all roads are invited to any of the sessions- then people could have had this conversation together and maybe some of these problems could have been talked out before...just a thought (quite a long one)
To be fair to Haringey, they do try - not always effectively, but sometimes very hard. It's notoriously difficult to get people to engage with this type of exercise until they understand that it'll hurt them.

I've been critical of Haringey's consultations in the past and have praised the effort put into one in particular. The praise was directed at the huge effort they put into the Charter consultation - result = little interest. So, let's look to ourselves as well and to what we're prepared to do in the future. The responsibility of the Council then will be to respond positively to this type of initiative and encourage it.



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