Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Fined for jumping a red light
So I can hear many people being pleased about this, but I can promise you fining people for jumping red lights doesnt work
its the 2nd time I have been fined and this time it cost me £50 on a very rainy monday by a very grumpy young PC- not happy- all cars staitonary- and no pedestrians
But will it stop me ( or other serial red light jumpers like me)- well its a BIG FAT NO-
Its just now I will have to make sure there are no police cars in the vicinity- So infact instead of making the roads safer, instead of me previously doing a thorough check of the road of any cars, pedestrians, other cyclists., I now have to check for police which means Im possibly less than 100% focused on everything else
So to put this in context
I am a middle age woman who has been cycling in london on a daily basis for the last 30years. I have been knocked off quite a few times( absolutely none of them my fault)
2 of my accidents in my early years of cycling where when i was leaving traffic lights- so I learnt like many other cyclists, traffic lights are dangerous places to stop- So provided its totally clear, get on your way. The more cyclists on the road, the worst junctions seem with the cluster of cyclists trying to find room with cars behind getting impatient and trying to squeeze through dangerously narrow gaps
So you are never going to convince me or many other cyclists its safer to stop at red lights- although i might be a bit richer
So any PC PlODS out there dont waste your time especially on a rainy day - go and catch real crims
So i know many wont agree wth this, but unfortunately a few cyclists give us all a bad name- such as cyclists
who jump lights in a dangerous way( when there are cars around
cyclists who go on pavments and weave around pedestians- scarring them
cyclists who dont stop at pedestrian crossings when people are crossing-terrible!!!!!!!!!!
But something needs to be done with all these recent deaths, and I would be really interested in what the circumstances were- i would guarantee it wasnt due to jumping a light-unless of course the person had been drinking etc
Most bad accidents/fatalities happen by people obeying the law- so the law needs to be changed
And when are pedestrians going to be fined for jay walking across roads and knocking cyclists off
I got sent flying only 2 months ago by a pedestrian running out in front of me on green lanes, close to the ale emporium- the 3rd time a pedestrian has knocked me off over the years
Right Rant finished
And anyone/cyclist wants to make our roads safer, see the petition below
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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I once had a word with a copper in town when the ASL was parked over by 2 cars leaving me with no where to go- I said was there nothing he could do. His response to me was 'No...is voluntary', ie, the cars can choose to or not to respect the ASL. From what I see here he was just flipping me off- wish I had got his number and pressed him on it! Lazy git.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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It's certainly not voluntary, but a vehicle can stop in the ASL if the light goes red AFTER they have crossed the first ASL line.
- Met Website -
The offence is committed when the vehicle enters the ASL box when the light is red. If the vehicle enters the box and the light changes to red, no offence is committed
Rule 178 of the Highway Code states: If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area.
We don’t want motorists to wrongly believe that they shouldn’t stop in the ASL box under any circumstances – this might cause someone to panic, drive through a junction and cause an accident.
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Permalink Reply by LSquared on
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People who put themselves in a position where the only way to be safe is to break the law need to take a good look at their road skills - the reason they "have" to RLJ is to mitigate the poor road reading which put them in a risky position in the first place.
I can only think of one situation where it's safer to jump a red light, and that is when you are pretty sure the driver behind you is going to jump it too and won't stop in time if you brake.
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I do. Plenty of experienced, skilled cyclists do.
Yes, once a cyclist has made the decision to filter around the traffic, it's better for them to get to the front than get trapped in between the cars. But often it's better not to filter in the first place. If you are going to get through in the same cycle of lights anyway, what's the point?
Yes, there are dangers and there are terrible drivers, and accidents between motorists and cyclists are very rarely the fault of the cyclists. But there are things cyclists can do to mitigate the risk they face from poor drivers.
It is so depressing to have cyclists complain about the danger they perceive on the road yet refuse to stop the behavior that puts them in unsafe positions.
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Completely agree with all of this.
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Permalink Reply by Gerry Platt on
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We're breathing exhaust all the time, I use this position but leave a gap of, say 3 ft, between me & the car in front.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Gerry, I also gulp in exhaust as I walk down the road. Does that make me any less important than a cyclist? I work in Kings Cross and I can count on the fingers of one finger when a motorised vehicle has jumped the lights as I cross Euston Road at least twice a day. For cyclists it's a few times each week (including the one who shouted at me on Thursday to "get out of my @@@@@ way" as he plowed though a bunch of bewildered French predestrians fresh off the Eurostar. I have been hit three times in the last year by red light jumpers and the last time I remonstrated was told that I would be "minced" which was quite amusing as one who could write the book about mincing.
I admire those who cycle in London, I personally couldn't do it. But I am sick of hearing excuses by the small minority who think that the rules of the road do not apply to them. If you can't do it, don't cycle and stop blaming others for your own poor behaviour. If I am stuck on a bus with 50 people, held up a meandering pedal pusher I don't think it's appropriate to the bus to ride on the pavement to get around them. Reasonable?
Sorry to attach this to your post but some of the self righteous (it's up to me when I obey the law) stuff coming on this thread made me less than calm. -
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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A complete red herring to say you're safer jumping rather than waiting. People don't jump lights for their safety, people jump lights because they are anti-social, impatient, selfish, inconsiderate individuals and think the law doesn't apply to them.
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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I think it is very interesting that this kind of abusive language always gets used in this kind of debate. I'm not sure it is very helpful.
This is the most detailed analysis of serious and fatal cycle accidents I know:
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/...
The majority of accidents are at junctions, the majority are considered solely the drivers fault, HGV are seriously over-represented. Where the cyclist is at fault - it is mainly children. For its worth, the incidents of cyclists jumping red lights as a cause - were too infrequent to make the report.
Bombing through red lights is clearly daft (and rude) - but there are also plenty of junctions where cyclists should not blindly pretend they are just like other road vehicles.
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It's a big jump to assume that cyclists who are not agitating for special treatment must be "blindly pretending they are just like other road users".
My experience is that the majority of cyclists at junctions rarely behave like other road users, and that is why they end up so vulnerable to the mistakes made by motorists.
Getting out of the motor vehicles' way might feel safer, but what it actually does is put us out of their notice as well. The safest place to be is where the drivers are going to see us, and the most fail safe way of being where drivers will see us is to use the same road conventions as everyone else.
I would much rather agitate for higher standards of driving and genuine punishments meted out to those who do not meet them than tinker around the edges adding special rules for each different set of road users.
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If you are on the road near to an HGV then there is a real chance that they cannot see you. You might be behind, in front, or to the side. They cannot see you if you near them. There are many junctions where if you are with the traffic then this is inevitable.
I am saying no more than simple fact so far. The detailed report I have linked to very clearly says that road junctions are where cyclists are more likely to be killed or seriously injured. HGVs and coaches feature disproportionately. Drivers not looking/seeing is the biggest cause - cyclists not looking/seeing also features. Perhaps surprisingly to some people cyclists jumping red lights does not feature statistically at all - but I can see why this might be.
My response to certain junctions is to avoid them if I can; or get to the front (and make sure I am well ahead, in front of the bike box if necessary); move away from large vehicles if necessary getting off the road . . . I can certainly see that having a system where bikes can cross on the green man (with pedestrians having priority) makes a lot of sense.
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If a lorry or coach is the vehicle in front that is fine.
If they are behind, I will watch them pull up. I look for a reaction to make sure they have seen me. I will continue to make eye contact as we pull away.
If they are beside me, by definition I must be on a two lane road. If they were there first and are indicating I do not pull up side them but wait behind. If they arent indicating i will stop beside, but will watch them move off to check they don't start turning before I start to move.
If they pull up beside me that is the most risky for me - I will wave and if I don't get a reaction I will let them pull away so I am well behind before I start off.
I cycle round Old Street roundabout and over the three lane junction at Stamford Hill with busses and lorries almost every day.
You are right to be wary of large vehicles but I think wrong to think the best way to manage this is to put yourself into an unexpected road position.
Yes, there are very large blind spots around large vehicles. Thats why I position myself somewhere i can see the driver's eyes. If I can see the driver's eyes then I know it is possible for them to see me, and by waving at them I have a pretty good warning if they haven't seen me. -
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