Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Don't Forget - Wightman Road Closed for 5 months from Next Tuesday (29th March)
In case it's escaped your notice or slipped your mind, Wightman Road will be closed to through traffic for five months starting next Tuesday 29th March.
This will be a significant dislocation to North London traffic movement. So much so that warning notices have been placed as far away as Archway. No doubt it will also have a significant impact on Harringay's traffic.
However, there really is no alternative to at least partial road closure. The railway bridge between Alroy and Wightman roads is being replaced and there will simply be no road for a few months!
One option the Council could have taken would have been to simply reroute the traffic via the Ladder rung roads. It is to their credit, however, they recognised that with over 16,000 vehicles a day using Wightman Road, this would have placed an intolerable burden on our narrow residential roads, already beset by undue traffic volumes.
After consultation with residents, the solution decided upon is to place blocks at regular intervals along Wightman Road, in effect creating clusters of two or three rung roads. Whilst this will retain unfettered access for residents. it will render the whole Ladder, including Wightman, useless as a rat run. You can clearly see the details on the full size pdf map attached below.
Quite what it will mean for traffic in Harringay, Haringey and further afield remains to be seen. Those of us who have been working with the Council on this very much hope that traffic will quickly find other routes. It's fair to say, however, that at very best, we're going to experience some very heavy congestion on Green Lanes for a month or so.
At the same time, the Harringay traffic study will continue. The coincident timing of this piece of work with the bridge closure may be fortunate in that it will give the consultants an opportunity to study the outcome of diverting traffic away from Harringay.
A pdf copy of the Wightman Road closure is attached, along with some Council-produced documentation. You can stay up to date with what's happening on the Wightman Road closure on a dedicated page on the council website here.
Tags for Forum Posts: traffic, wightman bridge, wightman bridge closure
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
-
Right and as I've always suspected, because of our local geography, we had become one of the main entrance points to anywhere in London from almost anywhere north of us. The North Circular is not something you really want to traverse from the A109 to the A105 so get off before then and continue your journey inside it. Because of local rat-run closures we had become a natural crossroads for east/west and north/south journeys and we are right up against the railway so not much chance for just entering and exiting, you probably have to traverse a fair bit of the ladder to get out again where you want to. I am shocked that there has not been much more chaos, and I am a proponent of the view that if you takes roads away, cars go away too.
-
Permalink Reply by Hugh on
-
I'm sorry to read that you find what I said objectionable, but I'm merely passing on what the Council said, Sam. However, you seem to feel the need to hit out at someone. So I will take that in good part and and take the time to explain again.
No one on the Ladder pressed the Council for this solution. At a public meeting, to which all were invited and which was widely advertised on HoL, the Council arrived with three solutions. None were ideal. All were designed to make the best of a difficult situation. Those present shared their views which seemed in the main to be in line with Council thinking. The Council's stated objectives for the chosen solution were the safety and the wellbeing of all Haringey residents. My understanding is that not closing Wightman Road was perceived by the Council to have some real problems:
- Ladder roads which already have what the Council see as a significant rat-runnig problem would be unsustainably congested.
- The Council felt that Wightman closure was the saftest option, as per their tweet this week (you'll have to ask them why)
NEW LETTER: Safety is our No.1 priority, that's why #Wightmanroad is closed while @networkrail
— Haringey Council (@haringeycouncil) 1 April 2016
replace the bridge. https://t.co/viu4OrhfEtI also think that it was discussed that leaving Wightman open, even for part of its length would mean that unsustainable volumes of traffic would be diverted on to Green Lanes for part of its length as they skipped the closed portion of Wightman, rather than being dispersed across the Principal Route Network as it would be the case with a complete Wightman closure.
The Council said that they anticipated initial congestion in Harringay and neighbouring areas but hoped that it would quickly disperse. They also made it clear that they would monitor the situation and make adjustments as necessary. They have confirmed this week that they will be reviewing the situation weekly.
When the Council make a decision like this they have the needs of a huge number of groups to consider. I'd hate to be in the shoes of the decision-maker. Some of the decisions are almost impossible. How for example is the Council to weigh your need to drive to guitar lessons with the health and safety of the residents on the Ladder and the children who attend the two primary schools there. Even if they could weigh those apples and pears there's a cornucopia of other variables to take into account.
That's the background. Now, Sam, since you chose to take a pop at me, let me just clarify where I'm at with this situation.
Let's quickly deal with my use of the possessive pronoun "our". It's quite simple; I consider all of Harringay's roads to be ours. So I make no apology for my language.
I very much feel for those affected by the current traffic issues, particularly those less able to use public transport and those whose livelihood is impacted. I haven't just been sitting by crying crocodile tears. I have been talking to a wide range of people to understand the effects of the traffic diversion. For what little good it does, I have also expressed my sympathy where appropriate, including on Crouch End's version of HoL. (Thankfully, the administrator seems much more considered than some and chose not to lay the blame at my door).
In addition I've been speaking to local businesses and business organisations to take the time to understand how they have been affected. One business on Wightman Road has a real issue. I have been passing on all information I receive to the Council.
So, Sam, I've taken the time to get involved in public meetings, share widely and transparently on the website that I run in my spare time, spoken to local residents around Haringey and Harringay as well as Harringay businesses and communicated regularly with both Council officers and elected officials. I've got involved and tried to do my bit and left the Council to make the decisions. As I'd have hoped was self-evident, I haven't had any role in any decision-making myself, and I'm sure my influence on the process has been negligible or non-existent.
Having said all that, a real traffic problem has developed on the Ladder in the last ten to fifteen years. I think it needs resolving. So does the Council. Quite separately to the Wightman situation, there is now in progress a thorough traffic survey across all Harringay to asses the situation and, you'll be pleased to hear Sam, to work towards a fair and equitable distribution of traffic. All Harringay residents will be invited to be involved.
In the meantime, can I suggest that you contact your councillor and ask them to represent your views to the Council. I'm afraid I'm not the right target.
-
Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
-
Oh Sam! I fear you are going to get a barrage of abuse for attacking Hugh. I may not always agree with him but when he has done so much in the past few weeks to help us all through a traumatic period, providing us all with the most up to date and reliable information which the Council and Network Rail seem incapable of doing (still haven't had my letter btw), having a go at him really is way out of line. Having said all that I agree that the "smug glee" comments about how wonderful the new world order of deserted Ladder roads is to be provocative in the face of the genuine misery being inflicted on other Haringey residents. But not all Ladder residents want that, I don't and told the Council as much. But I genuinely don't think Hugh has taken sides in any this and has worked so very hard.
-
-
Thanks for your response Sam. I genuinely do understand your agnst at the current situation. I too am a car driver and regularly use Wightman to access all points south, north and west.
I should probably explain that when I refer to rat-runners on this conversation I'm mainly thinking about cross-London traffic. I haven't made that clear, so thank for providing me the opportunity to do so.
There seems to be a real difference between how cross-London traffic behaves vs how local traffic is. The one is much more likely to be aggressive and driving at faster speeds.
The Haringey Council staffer who was managing the traffic marshals this last week told me that as they'd been stopping the traffic at either end of Wightman to redirect it, they found that about 70% of the traffic was cross-borough rat-running.
One of the cyclists in one of my pictures yesterday, told me that normally the public holiday traffic on Wightman, though still considerable in scale, is very much better behaved and as a consequence she feels less threatened when using the road on those days. It doesn't take much hypothesising to conclude that this may well be because the cross-borouugh rat-runners aren't 'running' on public holidays.
When I spoke to Cllr Stuart McNamara this week, he told me that he was definitely very concerned about the impact of traffic changes on local drivers and businesses but much less so about out of borough rat-runners. My duty, he told me, is to the people of Haringey not to those of Hertfordshire.
I'm glad the @HaringeyCouncil tweet helped to clarify things. I would have added it to the original post, but unfortunately it wasn't sent till April 1st.
You probably make a fair call on my sharp-elbowed comment about the Crouch End site admin. I guess, as hard as I try, I do get affected by some of the feedback from time to time. My apologies, however, for that comment.
I hope you'll be able to participate in some of the forthcoming traffic meetings. If you do, and you can recognise me from my avatar, please do say hello.
-
-
Sam, did you click through on Hugh's links for a subtle lesson in the difference between Harringay and Haringey? I think you'd like it.
-
-
I cycle to cricket with a bag designed to be worn on my back like a backpack. It's heavy; two sets of pads, whites, a towel a cricket bat. I don't think your guitars are a good excuse.
This: "I was unable to attend all of the meetings and consultations and unable to voice my concerns" is similarly dog-ate-my-homework.
-
Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on
-
We should perhaps be not so confident in asserting the causes of traffic congestion (eg the result of gating or closing off “rat-runs” elsewhere, introducing one-way streets, requiring parking on footways, no-right turns, inappropriate school runs etc etc). All these things are certainly influential but the ultimate cause is always the choices made by drivers. Underlying all of this is the implicit assumption that we are all entitled to drive our cars along any street that suits us – what might be called the right to the freedom of the Queen’s highway. The fact that it is now much easier than it once was to travel some miles to a job (or a school, or a leisure centre etc) means that many people are choosing to exercise the supposed freedom of the highway (coupled with increased vehicle ownership) to make journeys that were not made before.
In the case of non-radial routes across London suburbs, this seems especially problematic as the roads concerned are rather few in number and not well suited to the new purposes. One recent change that I suspect has made a big difference is SatNav. Drivers are now much better informed than they once were with unfamiliar areas and can confidently take alternative routes. In economic terms, this might be seen as increased efficiency but it can also be seen as urban blight.
Remember the creation of the M25 which was billed as enabling heavy vehicles to avoid going through London. This part of the plan was fine but who expected the motorway to fill up with cars because Londoners were now free to take jobs in other parts of the city without moving house?
The traffic survey data that Michael Anderson has helpfully extracted looks interesting but it will not shed as much light as one would like on what should be done for the simple reason that the survey does not include any information as to where each vehicle has come from, where it is going and why.
One matter on which it might shed some admittedly fuzzy light is how much of the traffic entering Green Lanes, Wightman Road and the ladder rungs is comprised of the residents’ own vehicles leaving or returning home. According to the 2011 census, there are only about 2500 vehicles held by households in the ward and even if every single one of them left and returned once a day, that would have accounted for only 35000 out of the 275000 vehicle movements on Wightman Road and Green Lanes combined during the week of the survey. By similar reasoning, if the residents of each ladder rung have about 100 vehicles and they all move in and out once a day, that would explain 1400 movements per week out of the 9000 recorded for the average rung road. This suggests that our particular urban blight is mainly the result of people from elsewhere passing through - no surprise there then.
Without seeking to make judgments as to which of these journeys is better justified we should perhaps all reflect that such journeys impose some kind of cost on other people. For example the delays that are caused to other vehicles (buses especially), the dirt and grime that accumulates in our streets, the air pollution (now understood to be worse than we knew because of diesel fumes), the noise, the vibration, the danger to pedestrians and cyclist etc etc. It cannot now be long before technology provides for road use to be priced in a way that recovers the costs and creates economic incentives to choose between the alternative ways of travelling in a more balanced way. What we have at present is, frankly, ridiculous. Let’s not forget that Turnpike Lane is so called because there used to be a gate across Green Lanes at that point where road users had to pay to pass. The money was intended to compensate the locality for the cost of maintaining the road.
Although I don’t think of myself as old, I can recall 1950 when we lived in a semi on a B road on the edge of Norwich. There was virtually no road traffic and our milkman came along in a two wheel horse drawn float (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_%28horse-drawn%29). He sold milk from a churn by dipping in a pint measure and pouring it into my mother’s jug. By 1952, this had changed to those wide mouth glass bottles with a cardboard closure. We had no car and I walked ¾ mile to school. To go to the city centre we took a bus (which is probably still the best way of getting to the middle of Norwich!).
In 1979 I bought a house on Wightman Road. This street was laid out and built in the 1890s when there were no motor vehicles at all and very little other road traffic. It is also a B road but I don’t believe that this means I am bound to suffer huge amounts of road traffic and especially not if it is people who could use the railway but find that, as they have already spent their money buying a car, it is cheaper for them to drive (yes it might be, but it costs the rest of us). Behind my garden there is a main rail route which has convenient services direct to the City and which connects easily to the Underground. This was one reason I chose this place to live. In all those of years of travelling daily to the centre, I never once used my car. The idea would have been absurd. An interesting web site tells me that on a typical week day about 800 trains pass along the tracks behind my house of which about a quarter stop at Harringay. The great majority of the trains are now electric and the noise disturbance for me is slight although it is probably worse for some houses which stand closer to the tracks. However, I have always found that the road traffic is a much worse intrusion and when one sees the volume of vehicles, this is hardly surprising. Incidentally, I have already noticed a reduction in litter on Wightman Road which leads me to speculate that responsible though most drivers undoubtedly are, a few of them habitually throw litter out of their windows. It doesn’t take a big percentage of 16000 drivers each day to make a complete mess of the street. I remember one man who used to pull up outside my house and empty his ash trays into the gutter!
I am not unsympathetic to people who feel that they must traverse the ladder in their cars but I would rather they didn’t do it and I wish they would order their lives differently. As I have no confidence that these sentiments will change anyone’s behaviour, I would say let’s get road pricing in as soon as possible. Blocking up residential streets (à la Gardens) to benefit residents would be fine with me. However, I don’t like the idea that the more essential road users would then be inconvenienced by the less essential users until the latter got the message, price them off the road I say.
-
Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
-
Dick, you're absolutely correct that the numbers from the traffic survey are merely quantitive data, they give no indication of the reason for taking each trip, the starting point or the ultimate destination. That's why the next part of the survey is going to be so important as it will gather qualitative data. Combining these two data sets together will be incredibly powerful as it can be used to feed into different models looking at how traffic could move both within and through the area.
-
-
Dick, If this is your gentle way of reminding me that I shouldn't be suggesting traffic cause and effect at this point, I humbly accept the admonition and sheepishly withdraw my statement on that subject.
-
-
I know Antoinette described you as saintly but there's no need to overdo it old chap! I am filled with admiration at the quality of the web-site you have created and the manner in which it is run.
-
Permalink Reply by JoeW on
-
That's a good point about SatNav Dick. I wonder how long the GPS companies take to update their map/route data with this sort of long term road closure? Or if there is a way to speed up the process?
-
-
The same applies to online route planners - today I have been looking at how I get from Green Lanes to the A12/Ley Street junction and the AA, RAC, and Streetmap all direct you up Wightman Road towards Turnpike Lane to join the North Circ. Obviously I will be completely ignoring their advice and heading towards the A12 instead.....(please don't anyone tell me how I should get there by public transport, this is a one off journey that needs to be done by car!)
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
