Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Cyclists and Wightman Road
Hi all,
Is it just me or has Wightman Road now become an absolute death trap for us cyclists with the jutty out bits that enrage car drivers who swerve into us to avoid oncoming cars...?
Thinking a cycle track on part of pavement could be an answer... We don't take up as much space as a car parking half way across the pavement as it used to be...
Nemone
Tags for Forum Posts: cycling, cycling safety, harringay traffic study, traffic, wightman road improvements
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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GL is not wide enough to have a bus lane on both sides. The current road used to carry two tramline lanes plus two lanes for other traffic, but buses need wider lanes than trams. It is effectively 3.5 lanes wide (which, ignoring the time restrictions, is currently divided between a bus lane, two lanes for other traffic, and a parking lane).
They should probably replace the parking lane with a dedicated, segregated two-way cycle lane, although they are expensive and this one in particular would need quite a bit of designing to keep cyclists safe from traffic in and out of the abutting streets. You'd need something like they've done in Waltham Forest for the residential streets meeting Forest Road:
One of the benefits of closing Wightman Road to through-traffic of course is that it immediately becomes safe for cyclists without needing expensive re-design and segregated infrastructure...
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Permalink Reply by Godfrey on
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As much as I support the better management of traffic in a safe and beneficial way, the majority of comments just reflect what is wrong with how we view traffic and the problems that too much can cause, from safety, environmental aspects and just common sense. We have the ban the dirty vehicle brigade who think heavily penalising motor vehicles will make the problem go away. It won't. Then there are the health benefits crusaders the seem to believe that if you rid the borough of motor vehicles, that everyone will suddenly take up cycling. We won't.
We are all aware of the decline of the high street, yet some would argue that people spend more money who don't arrive by motor vehicle quoting a survey but as expected no source, and seem to want to contradict the shop owners opinion.
So which camp do you fit in to. Do you want me to ride a bike because you do?, do you want me to stop using my car, because you think I should benefit from the health benefits?, do you want to deflect the volume of traffic away from where you live, because you want your children to be safe on the pavements, but not really caring that the deflected traffic will be endangering someone else's children somewhere nearby?
To be honest I think the issue is people expect others to see and agree with their point of view. In reality we seldom do.
I don't claim to know how to solve the problem, but there are clever people who do know about traffic management, traffic light phasing, and all manner of controlling the motor vehicles that enter the borough.
The drivers are just as oppressed, they are driving through necessity and normally not through choice, and just like you and I are en route to something, whether it be delivering your goods, Amazon, on their way to execute their business or trade.
Don't demonise the car. Not everyone is lucky enough to not rely on one, work together and find a solution.
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Permalink Reply by Laura on
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"I don't claim to know how to solve the problem, but there are clever people who do know about traffic management, traffic light phasing, and all manner of controlling the motor vehicles that enter the borough."
The clever people are NOT WORKING FOR OUR ******* COUNCIL. Therefore we need to engage with experts in the field who have worked with boroughs that HAVE improved the environment for their tax-paying residents.
If other boroughs have managed change then Haringey can too. There's some good news! Other boroughs have done it.
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Godfrey, that is simply not true. If it were just traders driving, there would be half the car traffic.
If it were better to cycle, more people would.
To reflect your questions back at you-
Do you think you have the inalienable right to pollute my air?
Do you have the right to close pass me on my bike, or generally make cycling unpleasant?
Do you want to encourage an American-style culture of traffic jams and car-centric urbanism at the cost of all else?
Do you want to make the streets dangerous for children to play on?
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To reflect your questions back at you-
"Do you think you have the inalienable right to pollute my air?"
Yes I do actually - I drive in the borough, like many other people. My car falls within the permitted emissions. Plus you can only take this stance if you have never ridden in a car in your whole life.
"Do you have the right to close pass me on my bike, or generally make cycling unpleasant?"No, but I never said I wanted to.
"Do you want to encourage an American-style culture of traffic jams and car-centric urbanism at the cost of all else?"I feel this is you venting your frustrations now so probably won't bother answering this and subsequent questions.
I am not confronting you. I am just saying there is no magic wand to fix this, all parties have bona fide interests and fighting amongst those parties will not help to come to an amicable compromise.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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quoting a survey but as expected no source
Plenty of sources Godfrey
https://www.livingstreets.org.uk/media/3890/pedestrian-pound-2018.pdf
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Albeit a good source, the main meat of this document is reviving High Street retail, the last time I looked Green Lanes was thriving hive of restaurants and eateries. I had to weave my way through diners queuing for a table. Would be ever so useful if there was something this detailed that covered the intricacies of traffic management, which I believe is the problem we are facing on Wightman Road and on Green Lanes.
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Yes, it’s a retail monoculture and vulnerable because of that. It’s hardly a thriving and diverse high street
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Permalink Reply by Pat on
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What’s your definition of thriving? It seems to be thriving to me and it’s a damn sight better than it used to be. Our section of Green Lanes has developed into cultural hotspot similar to Chinatown, the Vietnamese area in Hoxton, Oriental City in Hendon before the developers kicked the businesses out.
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We have the ban the dirty vehicle brigade who think heavily penalising motor vehicles will make the problem go away. It won't.
Well introducing the congestion charge certainly decreased the amount of traffic in central London.
It's also been well documented that reducing traffic capacity doesn't displace an equal amount of traffic to other places, it gives a net decrease in traffic.
No-one is expecting everyone to stop driving. For some (I don't know if you're one but I know you're very pro-driving) it is essential. For many others it's just a choice they make for convenience or laziness (for instance all of the bosses at my place drive to work as they have free car-parking, they have no more need to drive than anyone else at the firm). However, if you look at the space it takes then it is a fairly "selfish" way of travelling given the space it takes up.
As such you shouldn't expect to be accommodated with so much more space than other means of transport to transport the same number of people so it will end up as a slower means of transport.
We may have those clever people who do know about traffic management, traffic light phasing, and all manner of controlling the motor vehicles that enter the borough but the council have said that they are going to ignore them as they don't want to upset the business community.
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I do drive out of necessity as you detected and yes I would say in this environment "pro car"
"For many others it's just a choice they make for convenience or laziness"
- This is exactly the semantics that I find quite distasteful and tends to ruin any good debate or discussion. It's tantamount to coveting thy neighbour's goods. Making a comment on others decision to drive a vehicle because it doesn't fit in with your ideal. Convenience is not a crime, nor laziness.
"if you look at the space it takes then it is a fairly "selfish" way of travelling given the space it takes up."
This is why will be having the same discussion in 10 years time. We have a problem with traffic, we can either cooperate and compromise, or go after the one's that don't match our values and ultimately reach a stalemate.
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