Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Consultation Documents Issued for Harringay's High Street
Further to my post last week, Haringey Council have today started a consultation for the Trader and GLA led project to spruce up Harringay's stretch of Green Lanes.
A copy of a six-page fold out document detailing the options for consultation is being posted through the letter boxes of Harringay residents today.
If you're a home and you've seen it, what do you think? Do you like the lights on top of the Salisbury?
Link: Online Consultation
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay regeneration 2012-13, high street parking, high streets, outer london fund
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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How do trams improve the situation ? Trams were withdrawn in the sixties because they were inflexible and did not mix well with other traffic. At least a bus can pull into the side at the stop.
Where trams DO work today is where the roads are wide enough to accommodate tracks completely separate from the other traffic ie, the equivalent of two bus lanes and then some. I don't see that on Green Lanes.
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Permalink Reply by paddyk on
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true but trams are used also to displace traffic. trams can negotiate quite narrow sts. i dont think we are going to see them back again any time soon . removing them in general was not a great idea.
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" Do you like the lights on top of the Salisbury? "
Not really - incongruous. A bit too Blackpoolish to my taste
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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I can see where you are coming from Judy but:
"As for the celebrated 'vibrancy' of the area- much of this consists of betting shops and unnecessary jewellery shops."
Are these not a small selection of the shops or are you just dwelling on the establishments not to your taste? You didn't mention the great bakeries, cafés, restaurants and shops.
I don't like too many cars but the traders need people to park to shop too. It seems that many residents don't shop on their doorstep (beneath them) so they have to make a living somehow.
I still think a three lane GL (4 at present) with selected parking would satisfy all. In Sheffield one of the main roads (Chesterfield Road) has three lanes and one of which is a bus lane which switches side depending on what time of day it is to soak up the rush hour traffic/bus/bike demand.
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Permalink Reply by Matt Hewitt on
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I think the bus lane that switches side is a clever idea - how does it work in practice? Is the bus lane in the middle of the two general traffic lanes (and in this case does that mean there can be no bus stops during such a stretch?)
I completely get that traders need to make a living - but this is more likely to be achieved by making the area more pleasant to linger in, which car parking spaces on top of former bus lanes really don't help with.
Haringey Council's scrutiny review of sustainable transport noted that
"1.3: ...the need to promote more sustainable modes of travel such as walking, cycling and public transport is self evident...
48% of all trips made by car are less than 3km. Many of these car journeys could be undertaken by more sustainable modes of transport."
And
"2.18: The panel recommended that the operational hours of bus lanes should be extended [...] to ensure better bus journey times in the evenings and at weekends."
Extended - not reduced to zero. We need to act on these conclusions.
The council should also abide by its own Local Implementation Plan (Transport Strategy) 2011-2031, which reads:
"p12: "...relieving highways congestion in Haringey [...] needs to be addressed through the provision of efficient and convenient alternatives to private car use. This will include access to car clubs, improvements to accessibility, reliability and connectivity of the public transport network"
Strangely it doesn't mention turning part time bus lanes into full-time car parking 'pavements'.
The strategy goes on to discuss the "cycle hub around Wood Green/Turnpike Lane town centre" which "will feature infrastructure measures such as [...] cycle lanes, toucan crossings and raised tables at junctions to enable continuous, safe and comfortable cycling..."
Green Lanes leads right up to Turnpike Lane tube - so where are the continuous, safe and comfortable cycle lanes promised?
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It seems to have changed since I lived there but they have done as you have suggested put the bus lane in the middle. They use to have two lanes (the left one being a bus lane) going one way and one lane the other, to be reversed at the end of the day.
Regarding trams; they operate in Manchester, Nottingham and Sheffield and share them with other vehicles and only have their own space when they move out of the centre. Perfectly possible.
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I stand corrected. But I still don't see the advantage of a tram over a bus as far as traffic congestion is concerned. If you are going to allow deliveries to Green Lanes shops, the tram tracks would have to be in the middle two lanes so passengers have to get off into the inside lane into the path of oncoming cyclists and other traffic.
Another aspect, asuuming that the trams don't just shuttle between Wood Green and Manor House, but continue to at least Camden so that Sapphire Blue can get to work, is the horrendous capital cost of the tracks and overhead lines. Can we afford that just to save a few minutes between Turnpike Lane and The Arena ?
Faced with a similar problem of congestion in narrow streets in the 70s, the Brussels authorities dug tunnels in the centre so that their trams could continue under the surface as a metro. But we have one of those already
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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I am a cyclist and therefore do appreciate the bus lane.
However, it seems to me that the plan to widen the pavements is absolutely fundamental to this scheme. It does seem to be an essential step in making the street friendlier for pedestrians. The shops will be able to use the space, and there will be more scope for benches, and bike parking. Narrowing Green Lanes will help make it safer to cross . . .I also have to say that the bus lanes as they are dangerous to pedestrians.
Lowering the speed limit on the road would also make it safer for pedestrians and cyclists.
I do not understand how allowing parking on the pavements makes any sense at all (more or less eradicates all possible benefits above). It might be better to increase paid parking on the ladder roads to allow use of shops.
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Believe it or not there are unused shops here too ; )
It is in a part of Sheffield that is not really a 'residential or trading hub' and has a lot of ex industrial land around it so in that respect very different to Harringay. I showed it as an example of how the three lane system works rather than the area it was in. I think it is a compromise to both sides rather than completely ditching the bus lanes which would be a disaster, in my opinion of course.
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From the looks of it though I imagine that would only work where the stops aren't that close together. On Green Lanes the buses would constantly be pulling in and out of it as there are so many stops.
Personally, although it's not going to happen, I've also always favoured making Green Lanes/Wightman Road one way. Although only with one lane of car traffic for each, hopefully with cars turning on and off that would be sufficient to stop cars speeding down there.
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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From our mail box:
From Susan
Sent on Wednesday
I like the new proposals with the following reservations:
1) I live on Wightman Road which is a residential street of mostly small houses. Local residents have put a lot of effort into reducing and slowing down traffic to make it safer and less noisy. Making it one way (as someone suggested) risks turning it into a rat run. We already suffer from the fact that many of the 'garden' roads have been blocked, making it better for them but pushing the traffic up onto the 'ladder' roads including Wightman which is one side of the ladder. We, like many other residents, are working to improve our area. We hope to be able to get some flower boxes near Moka Cafe and the crossing by Harringay Station (we tried to bid for this last year but were too late). The last thing we need is more traffic
2) I agree that losing the bus lanes would be a mistake, if not a disaster. I travel by bus a lot and on most days we move at snails pace along Green Lanes.
Otherwise, I think the improvements on Green Lanes could be great, and really give the place a lift (are we going to be able to get rid of some of the many betting shops as well?!)
Susan
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Good points.
A further issue with one way - unless you changed the rung roads so they were no longer one way themselves, having a one way system on Green Lanes and Wightman would increase the number of trips on ladder rung roads. Eg I leave Seymour wanting to head north but can't because Wightman is one way heading south, so I have to go that way, turn down Pemberton, along Green Lanes, up another ladder road etc etc. My head hurts just thinking about it!
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