Will Brian Bring the boardies to heel?

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on February 16, 2009 at 20:21

I don't doubt that Green Lanes has the highest density of illegal estate agents' signs, but these ghastly hoardings are all over the Borough.

I wouldn't mind quite so much if they were largely factual about the property for sale, but as we all know, most of the sign is advertising an estate agent.

My understanding is that by some bye-law, such signs should not overhang the pavement (that they should not for example, be attached to a wall by the pavement and be perpendicular to the wall such that half the sign is hanging over the pavement.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

CDC

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Permalink Reply by Alison P on March 2, 2009 at 22:58

Any news on this?

Prompted by reading an article in the Standard about Harrow and Islington Councils who are asking local estate agents in Harrow to sign "Responsible Retailers Agreements" which then allow prosecution if signs are put up illegally or not removed quickly enough. More here.

Mind you, I'm not clear what the advantage of this approach is, given that many of the signs are already illegal (as I understand it).

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 2, 2009 at 23:11

Allison, I sent Brian Ellick a follow-up mail on 24th Feb. No reply as yet.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 5, 2009 at 16:12

So - quick update.

Having still heard nothing from Brian Ellick, I called him.Here's a summary of what he said.

1. To date tye main focus has been on Paul Simon who had been perceived as the worst offender.
2. Apparently 70% of PS's illegal signs are now gone.
3. Now to start focussing on the other agents and he "hopes" to get enforcement letters out in the next few weeks.
4. Asked if he planned to meet with these other agents, he said that "I might/I hope to" (Bit of a pattern developing here). Asked if he thought this was a key and very important part of the process, he replied "Absolutely". (My faith was beginning to wane at this point).

So that's where things are.

So, Anette, Ben, I think you guys should get back on this. You had been talking about organising a monitoring process. My sense is that this will be key to moving things along.

Thoughts?

Oh, an one more thing. Apparently I pointed out to Brian how little info there was on the legal situation on Haringey's website (my memory!). As a result of this, he says, he added a new page here.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 5, 2009 at 18:05

Seems to me that there's one simple basic question:
"Are you willing to run your business within the law?"

It applies to any trader doing something lawfully which in some circumstances may break legal rules. The obvious examples are selling alcohol or fireworks. To work with traders and get their cooperation Trading Standards Departments across the country are using schemes for Responsible Retailers who publicly sign-up to a code.

So I was delighted when Alison P pointed out yesterday's news item about Harrow Council trying to use a Responsible Retailers Agreement to tackle problems with Estate Agents' sales boards.

In one sense, an RR Agreement makes a virtue out of the necessity to keep to the law. But in another sense it means that traders are making a clear unequivocal statement - in their premises and elsewhere. They make a public statement to customers and local residents. And they make an internal statement to their own staff, about what legal rules apply; about good practice; and that they've made a promise to keep their business 'clean'.

I've no idea what Estate Agents think about the restrictions on their sales boards. Maybe that it's just petty? Or that - unlike selling booze to children - it's a victimless crime? Or perhaps cynically, they just see it as free advertising for their business; and know that local council staff have far greater pressures on their time.

It doesn't help that even the Estate Agents' own voluntary code of practice is extremely weak on the sales boards. So there's a role for Government here to bring pressure to make it tougher

Having spoken today to a council officer about traders who dump waste, I know that the Urban Environment Department is keen on Responsible Retailers schemes. So I'd like to see them contacting Harrow, learning from their experience, and trying out a similar scheme here.

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P.S.
Bravo to Brian Ellick for getting the new page on Haringey's website. I hope people will find it clear and helpful.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on March 22, 2009 at 16:49

Don't know if anyone brought this up in previous posts, but there is also a fair bit of fibbing going on with some of the boards. Next door to me there is sold sign out up by new kids on the block, Anthony Pepe. The house was never for sale but I suppose they think it's good advertising as it looks like they are shifting stuff despite the recession.

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Permalink Reply by Liz on March 22, 2009 at 17:56

That is illegal and should be reported to trading standards.
I've noticed their signs all over the place. This time next week, many of the let/sold signs will have been up 2 weeks and need to be taken down. I'm standing by ready for Monday morning...

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 22, 2009 at 20:13

I've been closely following these interesting posts. Some observations which I hope are useful.

1. This discussion thread is significant in showing what can be achieved when residents get together and pool knowledge and local information - and start to use collective power.

2. It has already sharpened-up the Council's response and improved the information on Haringey's website.

3. Gathering factual examples from different residents about Estate Agents bending or breaking the rules is important in establishing patterns. Which is useful for anyone who has ever thought: 'Is it just me?' 'Am I being too critical?" Or: "Is it only that particular unhelpful person at firm X?"

4. Estate Agents have rights. They are running legitimate businesses and are entitled to advertise - provided they keep within the law.

5. For obvious reasons, information posted on a public website about who-did-or-said-what must be completely factual and evidenced if possible. Criticisms must be fair comment. We need to remember that Estate agents have feelings. And they have lawyers.

6. So can I suggest it would be very helpful if people keep cameras at the ready; with at least a minimal record of events and dealings with these firms.

7. Enforcement by Local Authority staff is essential. But perhaps significant progress is possible by persuasion and voluntary agreement. This is why I've suggested the U.S. model of "Good Neighbor Agreements"; and the U.K. Responsible Retailer Scheme. Maybe the Council can make this happen. Or perhaps HoL could ask David Lammy to chair a meeting. I saw David do this at the Tottenham Hale Station 'Summits'. He's very good at arm-twisting.

8. How many Estate Agents have the slightest clue how much bad feeling and bad publicity they are generating for their firms? Has the penny dropped yet that local people 'out there' are keeping sharp eyes on any sharp practice? The firms need to hear this. And to realise - especially now times are hard - that alienating the local community is a really bad idea. In their own self-interest, there's another option: a 'virtuous circle' where good relations with neighbours = good business.

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Permalink Reply by Anette on March 22, 2009 at 20:26

Very good post Alan! We need to get together and let them know how we feel about their illegal activities.

Note to their lawyers: A lot of their boards are illegal, and we can prove it.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on March 23, 2009 at 18:03

I agree - a very helpful post Alan. Will be on to trading standards

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Permalink Reply by Danzigger on May 28, 2010 at 14:43

Hi

Bumping an old thread:
Wilkinson Byrne have a sign up on the house next to mine advertising that the property is "Let by" them. The property hasn't recently changed hands and the sign has been there for weeks going on months so I figure this is illegal advertising.
I have asked them to remove it, and they have replied that it is there "with the permission of the owner."
That's a heap of crock, right?
The owners permission is neither here nor there.
I am breaking any law or liable for any costs if I remove the sign myself?

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Permalink Reply by Protheroe O'Shea on May 28, 2010 at 15:15

It's a heap of crock.

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