Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Please Help Us Raise £700 to Fund a Leaflet Printrun
For those of you who are active on HoL, you'll be very much aware of Haringey Council's transport study. This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity for all Harringay's residents to have their say on how best to reduce our excessive traffic burden. To that end, we want to ensure that all residents are FULLY informed on the options available.
Unlike Haringey Council, we do not have a juggernaut PR system pushing our message, or the money to pay for it. So we are asking for your help. We want to raise money to fund a print run of leaflets for Wightman and all the Ladder roads, plus other events to raise awareness.
If you'd like to help us raise funds for the second phase of our campaign; to create a safer, healthier, happier Harringay for everyone, then please click the link below which will take you to our Just Giving page.
Thank you.
Yes, I would like to help raise £700 to fund leaflets If you'd like more information, or get involved, please check out our Living Wightman Blog or Facebook Page.
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Don on
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You'll have a long wait in my case, John; I'm a non-driver but a big user of public transport, which is why I'm concerned about the knock-on effects of traffic displacement from the Ladder, etc. I'd be delighted to see the end of Chelsea tractors (except maybe for sheep transport in Wales) and a universal switch to electric cars, trams and buses, so it's unlikely to be me who's crying over the bonnet!
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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All the same, you're presuming that roads were built for cars, and they just weren't (see the link above).
And this was just rude "right-turn from Endymion into Florence or Victoria to avoid those pesky traffic lights at Stroud Green, anyone?" considering how many traffic lights you can avoid on Green Lanes by using Wightman Rd.
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(Not in the right place but can't insert reply under your subsequent comment.)
John: Well, sarcastic maybe, but not intended to be rude.
It may not be true of this thread but across the numerous comments last year when Wightman really was closed there seemed to be a streak of what at the time I called “sanctimoniousness” from some Wightman and Ladder residents, who appeared to think they could just ignore the knock-on effects of the measures they advocated on adjacent areas. They may be relatively few, but my jibe was aimed at those who complain about rat-running in their own streets but think it's fine to do the same themselves in other places (motes and beams). In the same vein, I think it’s unreasonable to criticise the Gardens closure for increasing GL traffic but advocate barriers for the Ladder, as some people have also done; it’s illogical to condemn only “through traffic” when there isn’t enough evidence to identify it as such; and I’d maintain that some people’s very narrow definition of “local” as only Wightman and the Ladder is un-neighbourly. That’s why I think just shifting the problem sideways onto GL isn’t a long-term solution.
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It may not be true of this thread but across the numerous comments in 2006 when the Gardens were closed there seemed to be a streak of what at the time I called “sanctimoniousness” from some Gardens residents, who appeared to think they could just ignore the knock-on effects of the measures they advocated on adjacent areas. They may be relatively few, but my jibe was aimed at those who complain about rat-running in their own streets but think it's fine to do the same themselves in other places (motes and beams). In the same vein, I think it’s unreasonable to criticise the Hermitage closure for increasing GL traffic but advocate barriers for the Gardens, as some people have also done; it’s illogical to condemn only “through traffic” when there isn’t enough evidence to identify it as such; and I’d maintain that some people’s very narrow definition of “local” as only the Gardens is un-neighbourly. That’s why I think just shifting the problem sideways onto GL isn’t a long-term solution.
(2nd time I've done that to someone and it's only getting easier).
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Don, I've given you the link for the "through traffic" definition previously. By one definition - traffic which sails through the entire Green Lanes area without as much stopping for a kebab - it is 55-60%. We don't know exactly where it starts and finishes - maybe Muswell Hill to Stamford Hill, maybe Barnet to the Barbican - but surely not contentious to say through-traffic? Then there is the traffic which is coming for a kebab, or to buy petrol or lots of other things. Then there is local residents such as yourself (in a taxi I think you said) and me.
If we could reduce the traffic volume on Wightman by 90% and still allow "locals" (yes including yourself and andy h etc.) to drive along it, I'd probably support it. But we've been discussing the issue for years and no one has devised a practical way to do that,
What we do have on the table is filtering, which is guaranteed to permanently reduce Wightman traffic by 90%, treats all Ladder rungs equitably, has a mostly neutral effect on traffic volumes in St Anns, and forces the through traffic onto the intended A-roads where it can be more easily managed (with mitigation measures at first particularly to ensure bus journey reliability, and perhaps in the longer term with congestion charging or petrol rationing or any other London-wide or nationwide solution).
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(Once again this may not be directly under the right comment.)
John: It's my posts you've tweaked both times! Is your point "a plague on both your houses" because you think any side road closures that force traffic onto GL are a bad idea, whether in the Gardens or the Ladder? If so, you're reinforcing some of the points I've been making, but I don't get the sense that that actually is what you mean. If you dislike the Gardens road closures as much as it seems, are you suggesting they be reopened? If not, have you got another solution?
There is more to Harringay than the Ladder and the Gardens, and the people who live outside those areas are just as "local". They were/would be seriously affected by Wightman closure - but there's very little reflection of this in most of the HoL threads.
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Wightman has been seriously affected by the surrounding road closures and rat-running mitigation measures put in place. My view is that they're fine as long as we can have them too. I'd like to see "measures" put in place to completely stop the through traffic problem through Park Ave/Station Rd/Mayes Rd/Hornsey Park Rd/Wightman/Upper Tollington. It doesn't help that the messiest part of the North Circular is pretty much exactly north of the ladder and I suspect that commercial drivers especially get off early and go cross country through residential areas because it's quicker.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Don, the majority of households in Harringay ward don't own a car ( including me btw)
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I don't think I'm an exemplary citizen Don, I walk and cycle a bit but mostly for my health rather than altruism. I'm not aware that I've ever cut-through on Florence or Victoria, in fact looking at the map they appear to have at least some protection - road narrowings and one-way sections to send the would-be rat-runners back whence they came:
But really, the problem is not whether I or anyone else as an individual might take short-cuts, or that "one person’s short-cut is someone else’s rat-run". It is that 114,000+ journeys on Wightman is seriously affecting the health and quality of life for an entire community. Not "one person's" cut-through journey, but tens of thousands every week. Everyone recognises - as shown in the above screenshot - that when that happens, you have to change the road layout to reduce the journeys back to an acceptable level. Change the road layout such that the rational decision of individuals (whether altruistic or self-interested) is to reduce motor vehicle journeys.
I'd be happy to see an "overall examination of transport and work patterns and, in particular, public transport provision" too but it's not something we're being offered locally or even borough-wide and we haven't got 10 years to wait for the outcome.
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Wasn't it Frederick Guy who described Option 4 as a straw man to be knocked down.
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It's worth bearing in mind that the closure last year coincided with the Green Lanes station being shut, which will have increased demand for buses and car trips enormously. It certainly changed how I approached getting anywhere during that time.
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