Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
FOUND - Missing Northern and Central Sections of Harringay House Map!
Back in 2012, a I organised a group of locals to club together on HoL to buy an old map of part of the Harringay Ladder as the area was being developed. We won the auction on eBay and were able to donate the map to Bruce Castle Museum.
Before giving it away, I had an archival quality copy made by the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA). They also printed us some copies on archival quality map paper. A number of the original purchasers got a copy along with a few other locals.
That section covered the southern part of the Ladder. In the ensuing few years I've had a number of people ask if there's a map that covers the other parts of the Ladder. I've been dragging my feet getting it organised, but I now have copies of two more maps and I'm putting out this feeler to see if there's enough interest to get the LMA to do a print run of either/both of those.
I've now found the the Northern and central section maps, (Strangely the Northern section os printed with south to the top) runs from Hampden to Effingham. The central section covers from Warham to Beresford.
The LMA did a fantastic job last tiime round. Printing on archival quality paper, they preserved the character and feel of the map and rendered the detail splendidly.
Last time the I did two sizes - a smaller version at 37" x 25" approx and a full size one 54" x 37" approx. The northern section would print out at something like the same sizes and the central section I think would just be at the smaller size.
Last time the smaller size was £95 and £145 for the full size version (prices are now £105 and £155). If there's sufficient interest in these new maps, I'll need to check for up-to-date pricing with the LMA.My guess is that if there has been a price rise, it won't be very much.
Please drop me a note at hugh@harringayonline and if there's enough interest I'll organise another run.
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay house map
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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There was a slight alteration to the course of the New River when the GNR was first built. In the 1869 map you can see what looks like a flattened loop next to the railway. Originally that was a more pronounced loop.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Yes, that's what I meant.
But it looks as if the remains of the original course of the river hadn't been totally removed in 1869. There seems to be a footway or something following the original course and therby indicating its original more rounded course.
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I'm not sure what you're looking at, but it could be that you're looking at the trackway that used to connect Harringay House with Tottenham Lane. It passed under a bridge that was constructed under the railway line. Presumably, the additional expense that the construction of this bridge entailed was part of the compensation deal done with the then owner of Harringay House, banker Henry Chapman. The Superior Court text below gives some clues about the seriousness of the matter:
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Hugh, to me at least, it's obvious from the 1869 map that the New river had been diverted north around Haringey/Harringay/Haringay House and that its original course was south of that area:
Supposed original course in red.
And that there had been a slight straightening when the GNR was built in the 1840s. On the 1869 map, it looks as if some remains of the original course still were there.
Original course in blue.
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I'm not sure I understand your red line. As I said before the loop shown in blue on your second map was indeed flattened with the construction of the GNR.
Other than that, the loop to the north and east of Harringay house was only changed in the 1880's when it was culverted under present day Hewitt and Allison Roads. The British Land Company map of 1880 shows the river in the same place as the 1869 map.
As to prior to that time, the 1815 enclosure map shows the exact same course for the New River as the 1869 map (mapping inaccuracies notwithstanding).
The 1798 Wyburd map was rather less accurate but shows a simillar course.
It is of course possible that the course of the river was changed when Harringay House was built in 1792. However its original course comprised of many loops so as to serve as wide a population as possible. Later changes in its course tended to straighten it rather than make its route more circuitous. So I suspect the course it had through the nineteenth century until 1880 was its original one.
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Managed to find this 1723 map in my files which suggests the course was unchanged and wasn't diverted when Harringay House was built . Cary's 1786 map shows the same.
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I'm of the opinion that the river was re-routed around the north of the House as a landscaping measure at some time. I believe it originally followed what is the southern boundary of the house on this latest (1815) map. I can see no other reason why the House would have such a rounded boundary in a landscape (all around) of rectangular fields. And in actual fact, it's clear to see how the river cuts through the established fields.
The blue line is how I imagine the course of the river was until about 1845/6 when the railway construction began. Again, if you look at the 1869 map, you can make out rounded footways from the new straight course of the river to and over the railway. I believe these are the remnants of the original course of the river.
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I respect both your opinion and your imagination, but the available 18th century and early 19th century maps reproduced/cited above suggest otherwise. There is no evidence that the river ever followed your red route and plenty of evidence that the loop around Harringay House predated both the GNR and the building of the House. So for the time being, I'm going with the maps.
As I said above the river was built with many loops so as to serve the highest population, both current and future.
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Hehe..
Respect but no imagination got 'us' nowhere. -
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I'm all for imagination, but when trying to establish as true a history as possible, I tend to err towards available evidence even when it tramples over my imaginings (as it did with my not quite "Harringay House gate houses").
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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I don't think it could ever have flowed south of Harringay House without some kind of pump - the ground is a bit higher there isn't it? The map below shows a contour line to the west which the river is roughly parallel to, with another circular contour showing the hillock where Harringay House was built (now the peak of Hewitt Road). The river would need to go north-east of the hillock in order to stay at the same level.
I also suspect topography is the main reason the river meanders widely too - rather than deliberately trying to serve a wide population, it just easier to build a river if you avoid the uphill bits!
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