Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Basement Conversions-Why Won't our Council Crack Down onThem!?
Does anyone know why Haringey council is refusing to crack down on basement conversions? Anyone have nightmare basement conversions in Haringey to share?
One of my neighbours in Crouch End did a basement conversion last year. The whole project lasted about a year and was a complete nightmare for those who lived on the area: builders working as early as 7am and as late as 10pm (which the council did nothing to discourage), builders urinating in the street and essentially treating the whole street like a building site, horrible, large cracks appearing on internal walls of neighbouring homes and a few homes in the area even reported internal doors sticking (my poor neighbour got stuck in her bathroom!). I myself have been left thousands of pounds out of pocket having to hire contractors to fix the cracks in my walls, and that was with a Party Wall Agreement (which I had to instigate as my neighbour was under no legal obligation to get one and was perfectly prepared to start the building works without one). That's not even to mention the time and energy I wasted having to get my whole flat re-plastered and re-decorated and the stress and anxiety the building works caused me. Like I said, nightmare.
Anyway, I spoke to the Head of Planning for Haringey about my experience and he was completely uninterested. He told me that councils were unable to create any regulations when it came to basement conversions, that such works did not require planning permission, and that there were no plans for Haringey Council to change this. However, other councils, such as Camden, are starting to crack down on basement conversions. Just today, Westminster introduced a "Basement Tax. So, why can't our council do anything to better regulate these works? "Not only are these building works hugely disruptive, they are also dangerous to neighbouring homes: I spoke to a surveyor who told me that this area of London in particular is prone to subsidence and these basement conversions can cause major structural damage to neighbouring homes.
That said, if any of your neighbours are planning a basement conversion, be very very worried!
Tags for Forum Posts: basement conversion, cellar conversion
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by W Bromley on
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A third surveyor is not paid for being selected. They are only paid if someone makes a referral to them.
No matter if copied or not onto correspondence, a third surveyor can not get involved unless a referral is made as they are not appointed.
A third surveyor would also not read correspondence unless the referral is made - there is no need to as in 99% of cases there is never a referral, so why waste your time reading stuff when most probably it wont be relevant to you.
Your surveyor is correct, if you make a referral without need, you would have to pay the respective costs if the 3rd surveyor did not agree with you. If you had good reason to make the referral, the costs would be born by the building owner.
There are reasons why a surveyor does not want a referral made to a third surveyor.
In your case, any 2 surveyors can draw up the award. So if you ask the 3rd surveyor to step in - your surveyors work stops and he will just be paid for his time spent.
In addition, he could also be paid a lower fee.
The building owners surveyor does all the work, writes the award.
The adjoining owners surveyor generally (but not always) just makes a few changes and attends the schedule of condition.
so if he is local to the property, all his work could be done in 2-4 hours. (of course there are cases where the building owners surveyor knows nothing and thus the adjoining owners surveyor has to do everything but this is rare and not the norm).
Typically the adjoining owners surveyor fee are more because he knows the building owner is not likely to make a 3rd surveyor referral, no referral mean no one to regulate the fees.
If a referral is made, then this could show the surveyor is not doing his job correct, so within the industry a surveyor could lose some credibility.
So there are reasons a surveyor would not want the 3rd surveyor involved, he earns less, and an adjoining owners surveyor potentially has the most to lose.
My fixed fees are below £600 for normal extensions, basements require more work, so those will be charged at a higher fee.
Can I ask, what your surveyor charged the building owner to act as your surveyor? It is always interesting to know
Also, in your case, did anyone make a referral to the 3rd surveyor?
W Bromley https://www.mrpartywall.co.uk/ -
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I had a feeling this had to do with money. There was never an official referral made to the 3rd surveyor, although the 3rd surveyor did respond to a couple of emails he was copied in on. When I started to bring up the possibility of getting the 3rd surveyor involved, our surveyor tried to calm me down by sending a structural engineer over (who turned out to be the S.E employed by the builders and who I specifically told my surveyor I did not want involved as he wasn't impartial). The S.E did not do a report - he spent a total of 5 minutes in my flat. The S.E said he couldn't see subsidence, so our surveyor claimed that was enough for him to claim that any structural issues we might have in the future would have nothing to do with the building works and we would be unable to claim for further compensation. He wrote that in an email and in the addendum.
Our surveyor charged the adjoining neighbor GBP 1000.00 plus expenses to serve the additional notice, plus an additional 900ish plus expenses for additional costs incurred. This was for all three flats in our building.
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I cant say if it was to do with money or not - I can only advise, there are possible reasons why a surveyor would not want a third surveyor referral.
If you've had new damage appear, consider getting your own s.e report and going to the 3rd surveyor. A new award can then be written for the damages.
Settlement can occur for a number of years after a build. -
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Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on
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Hi Ella
Can I just confirm - was it the surveyor who worked for DPA that said you were no longer allowed to seek compensation?
Thanks
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Thanks Ella, and DP/ DPA contacted us, looks like they are targeting the area, I am awaiting their response
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Hi Mavic, wow interesting. I hope you have better luck with DPA than we did. They were awful with us and they ended up causing us a lot of stress. And, like I said, they told us we're not longer able to claim for any damage we may see in our home despite the fact that the works only ended less than a year ago. I'd be very curious to see how they handle your situation.
Is your neighbor who did the building work communicating with you?
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I spoke to his builder who was working there yesterday, and asked him to pass on the message, Waiting for a response on that as well.
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Good luck with that too. Our neighbor is refusing to speak to us. Very selfish man.
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Thanks, will update once I hear, hopefully you will get your situation resolved too
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Dear Ella,
we've had / have very similar issues with the council and our neighbour. It's not about a loft conversion, but about a rear extension and increasing the size of an outbuilding to 60m2, all under a certificate of lawfulness.
There were and are many many problems like noise, building out of hours, builders urinating in the garden, building works without party wall agreement, unsafe construction practices and no site safety (they even left the site wide open to our garden - we have kids aged 3 and 4), unsafe removal of asbestos, damage to our and neighbours property and public walkways (creating potholes), verbal abuse plus loads of issues with the occupation of the house (up to 17 people in a 4 bed house). The way of acting by the owner sounds very similar. We've been fighting for a year now, gone to a stage 2 complaint against the council and filed 2 court cases. We're at the brink of going to a third surveyor, also Alex Frame.
Can I ask you who you spoke to in the council (I believed the head of planning was a female)? And who the building owner is? We feel so let down by the council that we even felt that untoward practices were going on which is also what other people who work in the business expressed. One of the council surveyors also once expressed that he was 'surprised' that the project was signed off as it's huge! However the council just put the same officer on the case after he had left the council and despite us and others having made a complaint against him.
Best wishes and good luck with the progress of the issue - I know how distressing it can be!
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