Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Local Harringay Councillor resigns!

Local Harringay ward Councillor James Ryan has resigned. There will be a selection meeting by the Labour Party followed by a far more perfunctory by-election.

Zena Brabazon!!!! Please stand in our ward!

Local Labour Party members, please select Zena!

More details here and here. Expect Council Leader Claire Kober to have an alternative candidate in mind.

Tags for Forum Posts: by-election, democracy, labour, politics

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on June 21, 2016 at 13:38

Perhaps in the interest of fairness and balance we might hear from some members of HoL who got a great service from James Ryan in the past two years. Or someone who went to one his advice surgeries and found him ready and waiting there to try assisting them?

Saying that LibDem councillors Karen Alexander and David Schmitz could not "make a lasting difference" because they were not "in power", does have a degree of accuracy. Unfortunately it also applies to most of the Labour councillors and will continue to apply as long as we have the dysfunctional Leader and "Cabinet" system with a Leader who appears only to listen to her close allies and Chief Executive. (The appalling way they punished Cllr Gideon Bull and Cllr Sheila Peacock for standing up and speaking out for their residents, is a good example.)

But yes there are still small ways to make a difference. Karen, David and other LibDem councillors made valuable contributions to Scrutiny Panels I and other Labour councillors were on. They were ready to cooperate with Labour councillors - and residents who were not in any party - to achieve things locally. In fact, a feature of both Labour and LibDem councillors I respected was that they were always prepared to work cross-party and weren't bothered about claiming personal credit. Or having a photo while wearing a hard-hat.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on June 21, 2016 at 14:28

I think when referring to the leader of the Council you should write 'dysfunctional' in quotes as it's an opinion never shared by most voters and never will be. In other words, if we use voting as a measure, almost everyone disagrees.

The 'command and control' system of 'leadership we have I think comes directly from the military and is an inherently 'male' approach. The very idea that 'good men and true' can rule effectively by sitting around a Chair (often Chairman) stinks. The 'whip' is a throwback and I'm proud of the Greens for dropping it.

Council Leaders are a law unto themselves and can do more or less what they like, within the severe constraints they're under. That means they can 'rule' party members, force through pet projects, implement that dreaded thing - a 'a vision', perpetrate apparent injustice etc and get away with it - by electing them under the rules, we give them licence to do anything they fancy that's not illegal and none of those things are.

This freedom of opinion and behaviour is a cornerstone of our democracy. Politicians can and do completely contradict what they claimed to support in the poetry of campaign. They have to be able to escape personal blame for their actions.

There are better ways but to bring any about will need support. In London it used to be that elections were held on the same day in November. Property owners (ratepayers) gathered in the vestry of the nearest church to agree the bounds and count and record causes of death for the government etc. Those 'elders' became 'Aldermen' (note:almost no women) and were elected every three years. They soon added Councillors, often more junior people, who served one year at a time.

What changes to the Council system do you want, Alan, and how would those changes prevent an identical type of person replacing the current leader?

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on June 21, 2016 at 14:41

James was privy to all the machinations undertaken by the dear leader in the 2014 election. I doubt she'd be able to do that in a mayoral election. Can Haringey have an elected mayor like Tower Hamlets please?

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on June 21, 2016 at 14:48

And participatory budgeting, where we all get a direct and frequent say in how whole tranches of our common money is spent.

Something Anne Hidalgo (Mayor of Paris) has energised with an initial 50m Euros, so coming to London soon. Haringey gets through what, £2bn a year?

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on June 22, 2016 at 23:24

Thing is, Chris Setz, when people challenge your views on a topic - in this instance offering some facts about Cllr James Ryan - you veer off on something new.
In your latest post you seem to be hugely critical of Council leaders in general and the "licence" the present system gives them. Yet despite these general comments, for some reason you appear extremely unwilling to accept the possibility that Cllr Claire Kober and her clique illustrate some of the key weaknesses you describe. And that how they run Haringey and how Claire Kober has amassed power tends to make her - to use your own expression - a law unto herself. And adopting your own description, how Cllr Kober and her allies can:
"do more or less what they like"... "'rule' party members" "...force through pet projects, implement that dreaded thing - 'a vision', perpetrate apparent injustice etc and get away with it."

Yep. You've got it. And to quote you further, it stinks.
What needs to be done? Well, as a first step I'd advise joining the local Labour Party and helping to choose new candidates who are not closed-minded and do not believe in and support Tory policies.
You seem to hint that you are a Green. Well then choose and campaign for good Green candidates.
New systems? Though I've lived in other places, the only Council system I've seen up close and in detail is Haringey's. But the failings of leadership you describe don't, in my view apply to the late George Meehan. He had his faults but he was both a democrat and a socialist.
In other words Haringey's system can produce better leaders and a more open culture.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on June 23, 2016 at 7:14

>>facts about Cllr James Ryan

Still haven't seen any facts about James Ryan - just impressions by people who cannot possibly have been able to take an informed view of his Cllrship. You were a Cllr , you know how hard it is for the public to look over the shoulder of their local Cllrs - Cllrs do a huge range of stuff and largely escape any coherent scrutiny - it's up to you how much you put into the job and there are no records kept of the vast bulk of things you actually did - only you really know that. Did he attend all the meetings he was obliged to attend? I reckon he must have. IOs that good enough to confound prejudice? Guess not.

There are lots and lots of opinions on this site but far too many seem totally ill-informed to me and I think that's such a shame - it devalues us all. Why are people increasingly keen to hate on their representatives? Why can't we start from the view that anyone, of any political persuasion and personal qualities - absolutely anyone - deserves our utmost respect for having the cohones to stand up and be counted, to do a thankless, badly paid job for us. Although I disagree wholeheartedly with you on most things, I tip my hat to you for having contributed so much personally and am glad you did.

Incidentally, one of the things I don't like about you is your 'banshee-binary' approach. Reminds me of the playground. You want people to come out of the sorting hat painted one colour and one colour only. As soon as you discover my political affiliation, that's it, you'll cite my 'greenness' or whatever you think I am for all time, as if people could be comprehensively labelled by one vote every five years. I'll be pleased if you ever figure out how not to take such a polarising, binary view. People are complex. Thatcher showed us that even life-long Labour voters could be 'switched' away from their supposed political monoculture. Nobody is 'thoroughly Labour' - what Labour is changes and sometimes is awful - there was widespread support for Eugenics among the left wing at one stage you'll recall, George Bernard Shaw among them. So what would be now considered extreme far-right now was left wing then. Same goes for the good ole USA - the left there occupy the position the right did some time back - plus ça change...

It really doesn't matter what my personal political affiliation is, it's what difference I can make that matters. The only practical difference I can make is here, on this site - I couldn't stand for election, it's an awful job and if I were to, like you, I would end up sidelined. What I can do is try, on this site, to influence the way readers think and thus vote. You seem to catcall, like in the playground, seizing on aspects of people's views you disagree with as proof that the person has general faults and their 'weakness' indicates that's what they're like across the board. It's a crude form of bullying. People are not monotonic - there are superb, left wing view in all of us, even your most reviled Tory has them. The right wing could be seen as the Victorian Father in us, and the left as a caring, sharing maternal influence - we all have both to a certain degree, and lots of shade in between. Bet I can find 'bad' things in you, for example, but I forgive you them, as I forgive myself. I don't 'label' you with them, you're far more nuanced than that. So don't label me.

"..as a first step I'd advise joining the local Labour Party"

Your recipe is so radical! I'm amazed that you see change as being able to be brought about by joining the club - I wouldn't join one that would have me as a member. Come to think of it, you wouldn't either so are you being serious? Join the local Labour party and what, tow the line?

The answer is clearly not to join the Labour party - Labour received the largest income of any party recently, £33m in a single year I think it was - they wasted most of it and neither you nor I can control that waste, even at the local ward level. Our political process is still based on the male-oriented 'command and control' model - megaphones in the echo chamber. Have you looked into the Labour Party organisation? Their hierarchy? The widespread bullying? The software they use? (Software is vital in today's connected world). Dreadful, backward etc.

If you want anything changed in Haringey, you've got no practical chance as a Cllr - the incumbents exact a heavy price for their right to perch - total allegiance to the party line, as you should know well. Look at their campaigning methods - full of echoes of war - listen to the language. Words like 'footsoldiers' abound. All the parties are stuck in the (male-dominated) past - the future is 'open source' democratic control but I won't bore you with that until it's easier to see on the horizon (hint: podemos). I'm hoping that, with today's successful remain vote, we'll see the beginning of the transition away from that fundamentally racist concept, the sovereign state. Don't get me started on the monarchy!

One thing I strongly object to in you and other politicos is the 'old boy network' where you think yourself capable of solving any problem by sitting down with a small group of people and working out a solution on behalf of the silent majority, even though you have absolutely no expertise in the specific problem domain. Doesn't matter what the issue is, you feel capable of addressing it and making a decision. And who do want around the table? 'Good men and true'. You are perpetrating an approach to dealing with issues derived over centuries by men, for men - something the 1960's counterculture tried hard to overturn.

You can't sit round the Council table and solve Haringey's problems - you can't see the wood for the trees for one thing. Any good you do is largely by accident. The very idea that you can be 'advised' by experts so as to equip you to make decisions buttresses your essentially male hubris 'look on my works ye mighty and despair'. You have lost the plot - you cannot even achieve the basics as politicos - a mandate. So your star is fading - we're taking power away from you because you've abused it. The failure to be able to reach the people with your message is the death-knell for your type of rep. Democracy is about majority and you have never had more than 50% - a complete failure. So, keep taking the tablets :)

Permalink Reply by Gordon T on June 23, 2016 at 8:11

Lots of 'don't likes' there - could you articulate your preferred alternative structure?

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on June 23, 2016 at 9:58

It's hard to know what say about your latest comment, Chris Setz.
But since you insist on undoubted facts, please let me point out that "cojones" (Spanish for testicles) is spelt with a "j".
You've got everything else wrong as well.

Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on June 21, 2016 at 17:41

Ex Cllr Ryan was probably using local government as a 'stepping stone' for greater things (City Hall, natch). There are "Young Turks" in all parties and this has become more evident since a salary, sorry Allowance, was introduced.