Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Traffic: Thoughts, Problems, Solutions
I have been on HoL for many years but I have been stunned recently by how many posts there have been on traffic and traffic related issues in the last 3-6 months. In terms of issues of the day for our community this is clearly huge!
I was just posting on a different thread and it occurred to me that we need to try to draw together some of our collective knowledge and experience in order to try to do more than collectively shout into the internet to vent our spleens.
As you may be aware the council have taken a pretty brave step in recognising the collective mismanament of our roads in the last 20 years. The sustainability of piecemeal closing or alteration of the road traffic network so that traffic is concentrated on an ever diminishing number of roads to the detriment of those communities and the political myopia (indeed active intervention) that has allowed Wightman Road to become a defacto trunk road has been highlighted by the closure over such a long term of the railway bridge on Wightman.
This is the issue the Green Lanes Traffic Study will aim to address. Its first Stakeholder Group meeting is to be help on Thursday 9th June. This is one of the forums through which residents will be able to feedback their views. There are several organisations that will be part of the Steering Group (see the Terms of Reference doc for the membership as of May, this may change). If you care about what is happening, you should feed your views in through the various members that may best represent your area, Gardens, Hermitage, Woodlands Park, Ladder, HoL, Wightman Rd, etc, or your councillor.
In the mean time I wanted try to do three things. I want to draw together people's experiences in order to:
1- Hear the anecdotal thoughts occurring to you.
- I have head people say they are now happier sending their kids from the northern part of the Ladder to South Harringay for swimming lessons
- People have remarked that there is less fly tipping
- It seems the traffic that is moving up and down the Ladder (rung roads and Wightman) is moving in a far more considerate way- its less aggressive
- Traffic on GL and Turnpike is more aggressive, blocking crossings
2- Try to frame the myriad of problems, before and after the closure.
- 120k vehicles a week on Wightman (pre closure)
- Houses being shaken to pieces by HGVs (pre closure)
- Inability of traffic to turn out of Turnpike Lane in the GL leading to congestion (post closure)
- Busses not moving on GL (post closure)
- Increased congestion on GL and the time taken to get from A to B (post closure)
3- Identify solutions and ideas (however nutty)
- Close Wightman completely
- Introducing a pricing mechanisms for vehicle using local roads
- Better traffic management interventions to get folks out of cars in going to their places of worship or taking their kids to school
- Improved or altered road infrastructure to allow traffic to run more freely and not be held at pinch points
- Clear parking out of the bus route on GL
In the ideas one or more of you will throw out will be part of the solution, and while the Stakeholder Group is not a decision making body, at least this is a forum where these ideas can be heard!
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by WightmanPaul on
-
Joe you're not alone. The Chief Executive permitted investment in a new bike for my commute up to Muswell Hill. This is a return to cycling for me after many years - the 1980's. I pretty much gave up after being driven through from the rear on the Uxbridge Road in West London. Un-nerving as there is no defence on a bike. In those days I cycled out of economic necessity and youthful enthusiasm. As a not affluent incomer to London I never expected that there would be powerful voices arguing for the protection of cyclists and the encouragement of cycling. I was poor, it was what I could afford. Interesting parallels with the voices that I read extolling the like it and lump it theory of traffic for the poorer: " You knew what you were getting when you moved there so why do you expect to have what we've got?" I needed somewhere to live, thanks for your concern.
I took to motor-bikes which feel much safer. Latterly the arthritis has eased me more frequently into the car [wet and cold winter days on the m'bike]. So back to the bike now Wightman is filtered. Ditch the toe clips, straps and cleats and come to terms with click-in pedals and combined brake and gears - and my first aspirational carbon fibre forks. If I work a little harder maybe I could move away from the grasping lower orders with ideas above their station, Muswell Hill is lovely.
-
Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
-
"Ditch the toe clips, straps and cleats and come to terms with click-in pedals and combined brake and gears - and my first aspirational carbon fibre forks" <- No wonder you needed permission from the Chief Executive! ;)
-
Permalink Reply by michaelw on
-
One key point is that it's the pinch points that matter - e.g. for North-South traffic going on Green Lanes at the south end of Harringay the pinch point is the railway bridge. This is basically one lane in each direction, and I don't think much can be done about this without replacing the bridge (££££) or getting rid of the pavement, at least on one side of the road (which would create many safety issues).
The local by-passes of the Bridge (Hermitage & now Wightman) are both closed, so unless traffic goes further afield it all ends up queued up to get through.
The next question is how to cut the traffic going through - one answer is high congestion (as is happening now), another is almost certainly converting the Arena shopping centre into a more residential & less car based facility (as the Council are proposing).
Once thing that would reduce aggression would be more yellow boxes, with enforcement cameras - and enforcement action. At the moment the situation is a free for all, particularly around the Arena entrance.
It's also very true that we are in a changing situation, including:
-google maps and others providing live traffic info (using people's phones to provide the data) & routing people by the fastest route at that moment. That means that in general all open routes will get traffic, and congestion will be evened out across an area. This will be accentuated by self-driving cars, who will use this sort of routing
-there are improvements coming to public transport - longer trains on the GOBLIN line (in 2018) & new Thameslink routes from Finsbury Park & hopefully to some level from Harringay & Hornsey (in 2018). It could also be possible to improve bus routes to reduce car use (e.g. buses from further North going into Harringay).
- big improvements in cycle provision in central London (though unfortunately not much around here yet) - which the new Mayor is pledged to extend
-
-
We could really do with some provision to make journeys to and from Harringay to the east end of st Ann's road where CS1 starts. St Ann's road is a very unpleasant place to cycle as it is currently.
-
-
It would also be quite easy to create a cycle route from Green lanes southbound & up Lothair Road North, providing a safer route either into Finsbury park or to join Endymion road to link with the existing route 7.
-
-
Just to correct my point, the bridge at Harringay Green Lanes station is one lane Northbound & 2 lanes south bound (one of these is a bus lane).
In theory if you could maintain these two lanes to the North by stopping all parked vehicles you would get more traffic flow. However, as soon as one vehicle parked (e.g. a delivery van) this would be disrupted, so I'm not sure this would really have much practical impact, given the fact that this section of Green Lanes is entirely made up of retail & food businesses!
-
-
Then strictly restrict delivery times to the middle of the day and the middle of the night. Bus lanes should be operational and unencumbered from 7am to 10am and from 4pm to 7pm. This isn't rocket science.
-
Permalink Reply by JoeW on
-
I think the Steering Group's aims in the letter "how best to improve traffic flows, enhance road safety and promote cycling and walking for those who live and work [here]" should really start with how best to reduce traffic, not simply improve the flow.
In fact I'd say I'm personally not in favour of a more equitable solution, unless it involves an overall reduction. If the traffic levels across the ladder roads were spread equitably, traffic on Warham might halve, but traffic on my road would triple. Why would I vote for that?
Other key objectives apart from increasing road safety:
- reducing pollution
- reducing noise
- reducing damage to the services running underneath roads (Wightman has a long history of gas leaks no doubt caused by the excessive traffic levels damaging the infrastructure. National Grid are currently taking the opportunity to repair some of the damage - been doing it for weeks in fact - but if traffic returns to previous levels how long before there's another leak or, heaven forbid, an actual explosion?)
Is SDG's Traffic Study falling behind its schedule by the way? I think there was some community engagement in the project plan for May (or did that just mean inviting stakeholders onto the Steering Group?)
-
-
"2- Try to frame the myriad of problems, before and after the closure.
- 120k vehicles a week on Wightman (pre closure)"
I think the total number of vehicle journeys per week may actually be around 210K. My calculations are on this thread: http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/the-sunday-conundrum
-
-
"3- Identify solutions and ideas (however nutty)"
There seems a reasonable amount of agreement here on the solutions for improving traffic flow in the surrounding area - basically red routing measures (no parking, permanent bus lanes) on GL and Turnpike Lane, and ensuring the traffic lights are properly adjusted for the revised flows.
The options for minimising non-residential traffic on the Ladder then seem to be:
1. Make current arrangements (multiple road blocks along Wightman) permanent. (Probably don't need quite as many roadblocks as currently).
pros - might be the cheapest and quickest option to implement, best for residents wanting to drive east
cons - inconvenient for residents wanting to drive west2. Block all rungs at the bottom (or at the passage), have an electronic fob-operated barrier for residents at Endymion, and keep the Turnpike Lane end of Wightman open.
pros - better for residents wanting to travel west
-eliminates any traffic flow problems on GL caused by cars entering and exiting from a rung
cons - inconvenient for residents wanting to drive east
- reported technical problems with electronic fob bollards3. Same as 2 but have electronic fob-operated bollards at the bottom of every rung
cons - cost of implementation and maintenance, and reintroduces the GL exit/entry traffic flow problems4. Some kind of CCTV-operated "congestion micro-charging" i.e. keep all roads free but charge non-residents for access
pros - complete flexibility for residents in driving in any direction
cons - might not reduce traffic as much as other alternatives, as some non-residents would be happy to pay.
- Could be costly to implement. Might be administratively complex to introduce the charging5. Probably many variations on the above, but any other ideas?
-
-
From a practical point of view, is it workable to block a ladder road, so those people living there, visiting or doing a delivery (or collecting the rubbish) would have to U-turn? The same problem would exist for delivery vehicles etc if a fob operated system was used.
On micro-charging type approaches, the question is more about whether there is an existing legal framework for this, or would it require years of campaigning to enable this to happen. Then it needs to be paid for...
My feeling is that some variation of the current Wightman blockage is the most practical option, though clearly some people don't like this. This should be combined with efforts to cut vehicle volumes (conversion of Arena, car-free new developments, better pubic transport/cycling).
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
