Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
'illegal' HMO - what to do (apart from informing council)?
Hi,
we've had issues with our neighbouring house. It's got some history with changing ownership and squatters. To cut the long story short: The new owner has put in 10 bedsits. It's a 5 bedroom house, he didn't have planning permission (also hasn't applied yet) nor a license to run it as a HMO. The refurbishment works are a disgrace: The house seriously needed an overhaul, but he has just painted the rooms and put some partitions in. Not to mention that the garden is severely overgrown. Plus there were some issues with the builders (living on the premises) pretty much worked when they wanted, starting to drill at 8.15pm on a Sunday or BH etc. There is huge pile of rubbish dumped in the front yard. This Monday the first tenant seems to have moved in which is about 10 days after they started the refurbishment works.
We (and others) have made a complaint re the noise, but more importantly re the missing planning permission last week. We received an acknowledgement letter that someone would get back to us within 3 weeks. I then called the enforcement officer dealing with the issue. He explained to me that he visited the house this Mon, but no answer. He then wrote to the owner who has the right to either make sure the house is vacated or apply for planning permission within 3 weeks. The officer told me he 'might as well get planning permission'. If he doesn't comply he might face criminal conviction. He also informed me the that the front yard has to be cleared (Section 251 or so). Planning is not responsible for the license, but he has referred to a different section in the housing dept re this.
To be honest, I'm a bit baffled by the response. The owner is quite obviously abusing the situation that there is a housing shortage in London, letting small rooms without proper walls in a house that needs refurbishing for £150 per week. However there seems to be no law that lets the planning dept close down the house for the time being. He can move in more and more people and await for his planning application to go through or not. Either way he has made heaps of money in the meantime and doesn't even get a fine, even if the planning permission doesn't go through and he doesn't comply with the conditions of the license (which I can't see that he does at present). Does anyone have experience in this and what more can be done apart from reporting it to the council? There is several neighbours here concerned and we've just had the first loud row yesterday. One neighbour also suggested he would report this to the civic society Tottenham. Any other suggestions? Would Councillors be responsible and could we approach them (we're not British citizen, but belong to the Commonwealth in case that matters.)
Thanks
Tags for Forum Posts: squatters
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on
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Hi Tina
Hopefully this email will alert a councillor. Not sure where you are, but I believe that HMO's are banned in the ladder area. Unfortunately I live on the other side of Green Lanes, and the council gave retrospective planning permission to the Rachman who bought the house next door, despite our written concerns (both neighbours) and he squeezed 6 flats into a 3 bedroom house. Thanks Haringay Council! Good luck and stay on their case, and add updates here - that may shame them into responding properly
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Permalink Reply by Tina S on
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We're in West Green. We feel there are already enough bedsits in our area. I believe the previous owner had applied for planning permission to extend into the garden and squeeze 3 flats in which I believe was denied. He then sold on through an auction, making a huge profit with doing nothing to the house, just keeping it for a year. I will explore the issue of the fire brigade. Just had to lovely builders being noisy in front of the house again...This is really not what we expected to happen when we bought our property 2 years ago, living here as a family with 2 little kids!
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There's not much else you can do except let the council deal with it. Make sure the residential team in environmental health are on the case. However, as a tenant of an unlicensed HMO you are able to claim back all the rent you've paid if the landlord is prosecuted for failure to license. I would make friends with one of the occupiers and let them know about this!
Good luck!
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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"Either way he has made heaps of money" nice to see another New Zealander on here.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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As bizarre as it seems Tina, this may not be an HMO requiring a licence. To be defined as such it need to meet all of the following criteria.
it’s rented to 5 or more people who form more than 1 household
it’s at least 3 storeys high
tenants share toilet, bathroom or kitchen facilities
There are exceptions where all HMOs are required to be licenced but this is normally defined by an order or direction in a geographical area, The Ladder for instance.
Taking action on the lack of planning permission could take ages and, like some posters have suggested, the fire risk might be an issue that prompts a swifter response. The London Fire Brigade will inspect if they think there is a serious risk and have powers not available to a local authority http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/EnforcementFireSafetyLegislation.asp
I think you have to get your ward councillors in on this one and keep the pressure up.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Technically Michael is right about how an HMO is defined nationally. However, the council has powers (it seems) to widen this definition. For example, a terraced house, unconverted, 4 bedrooms, over 2 floors being let to 4 young professionals is caught in the councils expanded definition of an HMO.
I tried to find the exact definition but the best I could come up with in 5 mins was this. If I find more I will post it, but there is a phone number to call. However, I believe they are looking at anything with "4 households", even if (in this example) the folks are living together and share communal spaces (bathrooms/kitchen/living areas as one family would, and as we have all done at some point in our younger days.
Personally, I think this is a bit much, and a bit unfair on decent landlords- but if it is to work and bring standards up (for example in respect of the individual you are talking about) then we need to be clear that all landlords who fit the spec are included in the scheme, not just the decent ones... The lady I have details of in the council running this particular licencing scheme is Glayne Russell- 020 8489 5252. I would encourage you to call her and see where that gets you.
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As above, I believe the Haringay council approved next door's conversion to 4 separate bedsits (with a fifth added later) on the basis that when the house was purchased it was configured as
a terraced house, unconverted, 3 bedrooms, over 2 floors being let to 4 (approx) people. Each bedsit has a shower and kitchenette, but by keeping the communal kitchen, I believe this stops it being a HMO. Happy to be corrected, but not sure why there is one rule for Ladder area, but not for the rest of Haringay
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No, I think just having a shared kitchen does not exclude it (but that is a personal opinion). Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
There is nothing worse than skanky HMOs, more so for the poor sods living in them! There is a need for such housing, but it has to be high quality! We had friends up the road in one a few years ago. They kept trying to report a leak in the room above and the landlord ignored them. One night (middle of the night) the ceiling came down onto the beds below! Thankfully no one was hurt, but that was more luck than anything else.
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I should say as well, the link did seem to specify Harringay, but I thought it was a borough wide initiative. Maybe ask Glayne, and as a minimum get the house on her radar. If it is a trial that will be expanded then they will get caught by it I would assume!
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It was identified as one of the hotspots in the borough for the creation of HMOs and illegally converting houses to flats without permission. A few years ago from my end of the road to the New River (50 houses) we had 15 HMOs. It would be possible for the Haringey to issue directions covering every property in the borough but I've never heard of it being done by any local authority.
HMOs aren't always a bad thing. They can give accommodation to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to rent. I lived in HMOs for a number of years when I first came to London. The problem is when they are poorly constructed and managed or where areas become saturated, as The Ladder was (and on some roads still is). It's a sobering experience to walk down some of the Ladder roads and count the number of door bells.
Sadly, these days HMOs don't really seem the cheap way to rent as they once were and are becoming more and more like mainstream housing for many people.
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Hi Michael,
he does fit the critiera (there are 10 rooms etc) - I discussed this with the council already and they confirmed he would need a license. There is apparently already an officer dealing with the issue on the residential side and I will give her a call today as another neighbour informed me today that there is also an issue with asbestos in the roof. I will also explore the fire brigade option. Thanks for all the helpful advice!
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