Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The SUN's petition about our Council's responsibility for Baby P
THE SUN newspaper now has a record number of signatures for its petition in connection with Baby P.
I am not a regular reader of The Sun and I don't agree with every word of their petition. The steps called for (resignations of staff and managers) are far from all that needs to happen. Two politicians have yet to resign: Cllrs Meehan and Santry. At the full council meeting on Monday, Cllr Santry said there was no need for a public enquiry.
We need urgently a fully independent public enquiry. The present rushed Ofsted enquiry is looking only at the state of affairs in Haringey Childrens' Services at present and not about responsiblity for the Child Protection Register at the time of the death of the infant. (The Ofsted enquiry is thus limited in scope and further, Haringey managers are hand-picking the staff who can speak to the inspectors.)
Nevertheless, I have signed this petition and would encourage others to consider doing so.
I am not a regular reader of The Sun and I don't agree with every word of their petition. The steps called for (resignations of staff and managers) are far from all that needs to happen. Two politicians have yet to resign: Cllrs Meehan and Santry. At the full council meeting on Monday, Cllr Santry said there was no need for a public enquiry.
We need urgently a fully independent public enquiry. The present rushed Ofsted enquiry is looking only at the state of affairs in Haringey Childrens' Services at present and not about responsiblity for the Child Protection Register at the time of the death of the infant. (The Ofsted enquiry is thus limited in scope and further, Haringey managers are hand-picking the staff who can speak to the inspectors.)
Nevertheless, I have signed this petition and would encourage others to consider doing so.
Tags for Forum Posts: Baby, Child, Council, P, Protection
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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This is the gutter press at their very worst. The Sun wants to sell newspapers. It has been involved in cut throat competition with other red tops - it cut its price in the summer as part of campaign to regain ground. Hey presto - its one the national news as the caring voice of Britain.
There is a huge problem, though. As has been said on here before - we do not know who is to blame. Remember even the court, the police and the CPS could not pin a murder charge on anyone. Depsite the fact that this child was clearly 'murdered'. The problem in this very murky case was knowing who did what and when. And yet, before the results of the enquiry, The Sun apparently knows who is to blame - and has the photographs of ordinary workers on that petition. People who have already been hounded out of their homes, and yet who may well be entirely blameless.
This 'the mob' being directed by a very nasty cynical commercial organisation.
yuk. -
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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David, I have to disagree and say that this is an example of a free press if not at its best, then at least working well. We trash the freedom of our press at our peril. I appreciate that The Sun is not everyone's cup of tea. Criticism of the Sun seems odd, because there is a wonderful range of newspapers here in Britain. The Sun newspaper is far from the only newspaper or media outlet covering this major story: all newspapers have given extensive coverage.
The price structure of the tabloid newspaper market is far removed from the torture and murder of Baby P who was for many months on our council's child protection register. I am sure you are not trying to distract attention from the culpability of our council in this, but there is an important distinction that needs to be made:
There is a danger of confusing the messenger with the message.
It is true that the Sun has gone further than other press in their petition calling for resignations, but others have raised serious questions about the running of the Childrens Service in our Borough, which are tantamount to asking that those in responsible positions need to consider their positions. The situation calls for serious action – not as happened after the death of Victoria Climbié. It should be remembered that the Member of Parliament for Hornsey and Wood Green and others, have called for resignations. I expect that within days, these calls will be echoed by others at higher levels.
We already know those who are most directly to blame (and their names can easily be found on the unregulated internet) and they will be sentenced in the next week or two.
Our council is not evil, but for whatever reasons or omissions, they appear to have allowed evil to take place. It is a moot point as to how this is morally different from the actions of the principals. To my mind, this is little different from the charge of corporate manslaughter that a company would face after the death of a worker due to that company's carelessness, recklessness or negligence. Sneering at a mob and castigating a commercial news organisation isn't going to improve childrens services, but there is a crying need to restore confidence in those services. Haringey has plenty of questions to answer yet, and better than this attempt.
Can you understand why people are angry? -
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Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on
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I, too, would like to echo what Clive has said. Like Clive, I don't read the Sun. Nor do I approve of 'witch hunts' and tabloid-type campaigning. The point here is that Haringey Council cannot be trusted to look after our children, especially the vulnerable ones. They have been givens so many chances; they told us that "lesson would be learnt" over the tragic Climbie death. I did, though, sign the Sun's petition. I think the Sun could, on this occasion, be doing democracy and our dreadful social services department a favour in the long term.
As for the 'Baby P Party', it's certainly true that its main leader of this political movement has close links with unsavoury far-right parties. Ironically, Mr Dangerfield (my name for him) allowed a convicted child abuser to stand for one of his parties in the late seventies, if Wiki can be believed. Anyone from Haringey who takes up their challenge to stand for them will soon regret it!
Alan Stanton is a legitimate target in this debate. As a Haringey councillor, he opposed an opposition attempt to hold the council and key individuals to account. It is only right people be allowed to challenge him on this and others sites. Personally, I think he is a disgrace on this and other issues (i.e. putting people out of their businesses, jobs and homes in the Ward's Corner area. He is also a cultural and architectural vandal). Let debate flourish on this site! -
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Justin, let us please just be clear that you as chair of the local Conservative party are bound to make political statements of this sort and I am confident that Alan Stanton is more than capable of defending himself against attacks from 'the other side'. And stick to the point, please do not drag other issues into this thread.
Please be reminded that we ask people to be open about political allegiances as John has done above and to remain courteous at all times. -
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PS. I wonder how many people would be objecting to this campaign if it had been run by the Guardian? I see double standards here.
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Anyone who wants to know more about me can simply click on my name and view my profile. There I make clear that I am a volunteer in the local Conservative Party. Given the circumstances of this and the Climbie cases, I think I and others are being remarkably calm....
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Justin, don't forget this paragraph from our terms of service:
"If you hold a political position or your membership is on behalf of a trade or profession which has a direct bearing on your membership, this should be clearly disclosed on your member's page. Reminders of that affiliation should be made when appropriate if you are writing to another member or posting on a discussion."
Now if you were discussing the quality of the tea in a local cafe, I'm sure we wouldn't worry, but in a heated political situation, I think the correct thing to do is to follow the protocol strictly. -
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Dear Liz, having re-read your comment/post I must say I take offence at the suggestion that I am bound to make political capital out of this. You have to rember that I am also a human being and a local resident, as well as being a 'politico'. I don't always speak for my party. Equally, they don't always speak for me. Unlike Haringey Labour councillors, I don't always toe the party line. I have a mind of my own. I think others should, too.
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Justin, as the moderator of this site and someone who ultimately has to make decisions on on what is acceptable or not, I cannot pretend that I know all the answers, but I have to ensure that people respect the rules of the site and make some judgements based on those. I have already had one request to close this thread which I have not done in the interests of airing the arguments. As a volunteer and a relative newbie to this lark, I am bound from time to time to make the wrong call. Nevertheless I was merely asking that we declare our interests at all time for the sake of the largely silent majority who may be reading this and may not be aware of this. I would argue that by dragging Ward's corner into this you were scoring political points, and would ask you to stick to the topic of the value of the Sun petition.
As the mother of 2 young children, I am very affected emotionally by this and I doubt whether there is anyone on this site who is not horrified at a very deep level politics aside, but we gain nothing by mounting attacks on individual councillors who are not directly involved in this case nor speculating on their motivations. -
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