Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Annoying guests
Does anyone else get gangs of men hanging around outside their houses drinking and eating?
I don't know if this is some kind of cultural thing, but I have noted lots of east European men (not teenagers) lurking around having loud conversations while sitting on people's front walls in the 'Gay. It is threatening and they leave litter.
Has anyone else had this happen to them and how do you get them to go away without starting a neighbourhood feud?
Jesus, Harringay makes you NIMBY.
I don't know if this is some kind of cultural thing, but I have noted lots of east European men (not teenagers) lurking around having loud conversations while sitting on people's front walls in the 'Gay. It is threatening and they leave litter.
Has anyone else had this happen to them and how do you get them to go away without starting a neighbourhood feud?
Jesus, Harringay makes you NIMBY.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Look, this is a question of public versus private space. If someone wants to
sit at home in their underpants drinking tins and eating chicken lips while
spitting on the sofa, perhaps while their dog defecates on the carpet before
hurling all the debris under the bed, that is their choice in their private
sphere (although I would question how long their mental health would last under those conditions). The gentleman that sits on his front door step with a can of Tennant's is doing no harm. The fellow on the park bench enjoying a sarnie and a can is nothing to object to but as soon as he makes the choice to come out into public space to eat and drink, he should also accept that he has a responsibility to respect other users of that public space and act accordingly.
You don't have the right to act as you please in a pub for example, the
landlord sets the rules and you have to accept that unspoken contract if you
want to drink there. In all sorts of public areas there are unspoken accepted
ways to behave that keep that place safe. The street and public transport are
no different.
We are not talking teens here, we've all been there, testing the boundaries,
'shocking' our elders. We are talking adults who should take responsibility for
their choices in public places in the way your vicar, copper and you presumably did when you had a beer on the train.
What appears to be happening is that while people are claiming their rights to
act in certain ways in public spaces, they are disregarding, as Michael says,
the impact their behaviour has on others. We need our 'social contract' if we are not to destroy the positive that there is in human society but too many at present are breaking that contract.
Now I don't necessarily believe that legislation is the right way either. Any
law that is impossible or too costly to enforce is meaningless. There is little
evidence to suggest that education plays a significant part in helping unless
the standards being set are being respected by everyone. Tell a Harringay child not to litter when they are walking through broken glass and old fast food packaging, they're not stupid...one rule for me but not for the grown up.
It is perfectly acceptable to make explicit the fact that responsiblity for
your actions is part of growing up and taking your place in society. Freedom
without knowledge, and an understanding of your relationship to others is simply meaningless confusion.
See you B2 and Anette indeed. I will be the one with the copy of Rousseau under my arm, sipping a subtle white with just a hint of nettles...:)
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Not at all Michael, just don't believe in dictating values on others who chose to act in a different (legal) social way than yourself. That is what makes Green Lanes so special, because everything is so different, I don’t want to rid everything that I don’t agree with and doesn’t comply with my Middle Class Manifesto. Dictating ones own values on the masses can be very dangerous.
Imposing ‘la-de-da’ values because you look down on it is derogatory to all who chose a ‘lesser’ social attitude to yourself.
I would move out of Harringay if all this Radio 4 rhetoric becomes reality, I moved here warts and all and I accept that and do not want to clone it like some other middle class suburb.
I am going to start drinking on busses again, and watch the newspapers twitch.
It is possible to drink a can of beer on a bus and respect others around you, do you not think, or do we all instantly turn into loons?
What is the criteria here, is it okay to have a glass of wine on an intercity train or a beer on a suburban train?
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B2 this is not a class issue! For pete's sake do you suppose that the people in Tottenham love the dumping, litter and vomit of their beloved high road because it make them more gritty and urban that Muswell Hill. So why do those people demand the same rights as others to enjoy their public space without fear? By your rules they are getting above themselves, expecting too much. Live in the east of the borough and you deserve nothing better?
My parents wouldn't be seen dead eating anything more than an ice cream in the street and as for drinking, not so much as a bottle of water. Yet I doubt my mum would know what a croissant was if you hit her in the mush with it.
Working class people expect cleanliness, good behaviour, safe streets and to tell them that they have to lump it because they happen to be have a certain postcode is frankly an insult.
La de dah, Radio 4, stick to chip butties and the X factor eh? That's all your worth if you can't go out at night because your streets are too full of people exercising their liberties and freedoms!
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Well Liz, I think it is, most (not all) people who do drink in public are at the lower end of the economic scale and it's the educated middles that love to dig at them.
I just cannot see the problem, I really can't. Maybe I'm not highly-strung and intolerant like some (not you Liz!).
Can I also add to the mass hypocrisy of this thread and remind you all that most (not me!) on here were drinking cans / bottles of beer and wine at the Ladder Summer Fete on Fairfax Road Open Space in full view of infants – despicable behaviour.
Live and let live?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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You've obviously never had the pleasure of taking a train from Liverpool Street on a Friday evening as the boys from the merchant banks pile back to their gated communities in Essex. The lager runs like piss (and so does the piss) and fellow travellers are entertained by fights, wave you willy at everyone competions and the usual challenge of "If you don't like it, get off the train" (or move to Hertfordshire).
Getting tanked in public is not about class - it's about not understanding (or more likely giving a toss) how intimidating the behaviour is to other people.
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Ban them from the train then, it's not difficult. Implement legislation and policy already in place not create more that is not going to be adhered to.
There will be others who can act in a civil manner but as we have to be grouped together in a xenophobic way, we all suffer.
Not all people who drink in public are intimidating, myself and fellow football fans (or hooligans if you want to round us all up) have been complimented many times on our well-mannered behaviour, whilst suppin' a beer.
If it’s not about class, how can the majority of this thread argue against public drinking whilst they attended an event in a public space and drunk all day in the full view of children? Hypocritical!
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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B2, you're missing the point!
"Can I also add to the mass hypocrisy of this thread and remind you all that most (not me!) on here were drinking cans / bottles of beer and wine at the Ladder Summer Fete on Fairfax Road Open Space in full view of infants – despicable behaviour."
Thats not what this is about. We cleaned up. We took our bottles etc. home. We did not start fights. We did not intimidate passers by. We acted responsibly and respected our fellow humans.
I can feel myself getting more intolerant by the minute.
Right, off to beat someone up now, maybe spit at someone and have a wee on a train somwhere. That's OK, isn't it?
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No Annette you're missing the point - big style, it's okay to do what you want and everyone else can go jump.
How do you know who cleans up and doesn't clean up after them? Someone drinking a beer on a bus or in the street is capable of using the litter bins, some are not as at the Summer Fete.
I did litter picking after that event and there were loads of cans on the floor that I picked up, bastards!
This thread is a joke.
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Now, now. Prams and toys come to mind.
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Well you can have your Lego Bus and drunk mob back, I'm off to play with my Barbie and Action Man Champagne Hamper Set in the back garden.
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Lovely Birdy, actually it seems the other way around to me, you can do what you want, and if it bothers other people, tough.
I know someone is not cleaning up after themselves, as I can see the litter on the floor!
I'm going off to play with my my little toytown where everyone are happy, no-one's unwashed and smelly and everyone drinks posh chilled white wine, no-one litters and the dogs do not poo. And if anyone steps out of line they are terminated.
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You are getting worked up over an opinion.
I don’t see any difference to the drinking in Fairfax Open Space to drinking on the street or bus, as long as they clear up after themselves. Some people are responsible, some are not, there’s no consistency in this argument. I give a damn about Harringay and have no ambitions to leave, you seem less happy, which I am genuinely sorry to hear.
I dislike this it’s okay for me but not for you attitude, I’m sorry but that’s how a lot of this comes across.
As much as you want to harp on, myself, and most people agree with you about the litter and dog poo, so your arguing with no one but yourself. -
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