Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Hell that is Wood Green
Yesterday, I had the misfortune to find myself in the shopping mall. Walking out the big automatic doors and into the crowd of Star Wars pub extras who were smoking, spitting and squabbling on the footpath I witnessed what for me sums up the whole carbuncle on the arse of Haringey that is Wood Green High Road. One of the characters stormed through the crowd with his status dog in tow. I was reflecting on the fact that ‘status’ dogs don't seem to work (as the people who have them only ever seem to be what everyone else in society would consider low status). Everything suddenly went quiet except the ever present sirens. The status dog had stopped and released its copious bowels all over the footpath. It was like turning on the light in an HMO; the cockroaches screamed and scattered. The dog owner laughed and walked on. It was probably one of the most disgusting things I have seen or smelt in London. Eventually the crowd returned and watched the next horde trample the mess up and down the road. There was no-one to turn to, no-one to clean up and more importantly no-one with the authority to challenge and/or shoot the dog owner. Things just returned to normal.
The whole experience made me think how the council, local police and traders believe that we're all animals if they are happy for us to have to deal with this every time we go to the High Road. It's easy enough for me to hop on a bus and head off to Crouch End or Islington or even Enfield to shop but if you're older or disabled and have trouble getting around or not enough money for the bus it must be pretty grim to face it every day. Imagine how the standard little old lady dreads heading out into the crowds, litter, phlegm, smoke and anti-social behaviour of Wood Green every morning to get the milk.
Short of manning water cannons at each end of the High Road and employing some mercenaries with batons to control the crowds, I don’t know what can be done. Are there any clever ‘nudges’ or interventions that could improve Wood Green? Is it a matter of tarting the place up and hoping that the crowds respect their new surroundings? Is it signage to remind, and in many instances educate, people that spitting, littering and barging into other people is just not the done thing? Or do we just give up, bulldoze the lot and install a waterhole in the middle and let the law of the jungle and the status dog owners prevail?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sharon on
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im not sure the locals in a lower socio economic group around the brunswick benefit that much from the shooping area, yes, its pleasant but from my experience, i visit regularly, its shoppers are proffesionals from the universities and hospitals nearby and tourists. the locals living in he flats are not shopping in waitrose or in whistles
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Thanks for the links Robert, interesting. I think Otto Saumarez Smith (20CS) got it in one when he described the (overall) feeling of passing through a canyon.
Much of the Shopping City building is attractive, but the basic problem surely, is the heavily trafficked road that runs smack through the middle.
Like much other massed brutalist architecture, it lacks a human scale.
Compare the off-the-peg development proposed for Wards Corner, by the council's development partner Graingers, with the more modest but human-scale, sympathetic and community-friendly proposal by the Wards Corner Community Coalition. The council's approach to Tottenham regeneration is worrying on several levels.
Shopping City is here to stay and its hard to see how the built-environment could be improved without an unjustified tear-down. Meanwhile, surely the anti-social behaviour referred to at the top of this thread could be addressed by the expedient known as policing and enforcement?
How many prosecutions have been made for littering, for example?
It's the most basic stuff that needs improving. The impression given, is that of a lack of care.
We don't have to look far to see a local success of improving the built (Victorian) environment. Green Lanes is being transformed and I was pleased to see the trees go in last week, four per intersection. What a difference. The thing that needs to happen now is for the council to do the basic, boring thing that so often it falls down on: maintenance, especially on litter (I don't like to see all the chewing gum on the new pavements, but that's another matter).
Disclosure:
am a prospective councillor candidate
Highgate Ward | Liberal Democrat Party
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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You're right Clive, it's often the boring stuff that makes a difference. Litter free streets discourage littering. Also some of the minor tweaks that have been mentioned by others, like moving bus stops away from ATMs to stop overcrowding. The expensive stuff is sexier of course but will fail if the basics aren't sorted out.
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Litter free streets discourage littering.
Yes.
I would like to see a zero-tolerance approach to litter.
I don't favour North Korean execution-by-flamethrower type penalties, however I would like to see such a policy enforced irrespective of age, race, gender, disability, colour or creed or anything else. Dropping litter should be unacceptable instead of tolerated.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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Does Haringey have 'litter wardens' (for want of a proper job title) who can hand out on-the-spot fines? This does seem to happen in some other London boroughs, much to the indignation of the odd cigarette butt-tosser, at least as reported by the local press?
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They're called street enforcement officers Gordon though I rarely see them on the street and have never seen them enforce.
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Definately. I'm amazed by how much litter dropping I see generally. I grew up in the 70s during very strong anti litter campaigns, it wasnt tolerated in our house nor in the community I was brought up in, Ive passed that down to my kids too. ive seen one litter warden in the 30 years ive lived here. it was last year on seven sisters rd outside tescos. He issued an on the spot fine. there was a bit of a kerfuffle.
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Permalink Reply by Takaokagiejin on
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One of the reasons people dont drop litter / allow their kids to pee in the middle of shops / dogs poo in the middle of the street is that other people don't allow them to get away with it. We too were taught not to drop litter like most kids, this is normal. But if we did it was rarely my parents who saw it and chastised me but members of the public who felt free, quite rightly, to tick me off. We didn't answer back, we didn't ignore them because the whole street was glaring disapprovingly. The behaviours of the few in Wood Green happen because we let them. Mostly because we are scared of the reaction. A few litter wardens would both not be enough to change behaviours and cost is all money. The voice of neighbours saying "stop that" in unison is free and far more effective. But we don't and the reaction to my observation that I witnessed a mother allowing her child to pee in H&M is an example of why. People on this site practically accused me of child abuse for suggesting this behaviour was not ok. Not surprising I said nothing to the mother at the time, I feared the reaction then too. It's our behaviours which need to change first of we want to live in a more pleasant place.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Pike on
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Think we need a more direct Aussie approach. This reappropriated for litter/ soiling...etc:
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Takaokagiejin,I dont recall anyone accusing you of child abuse on here. I think what you saw was an extreme example of...I dont know, anti social behaviour by the Child, the Mum? Its not something that ive ever seen, you are probably unlikely to see it again. litter and dog crap is something we all have to deal with and not just in WG. Personally challenging those behaviours is risky although on occasion I have.
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