Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Annoying guests
Does anyone else get gangs of men hanging around outside their houses drinking and eating?
I don't know if this is some kind of cultural thing, but I have noted lots of east European men (not teenagers) lurking around having loud conversations while sitting on people's front walls in the 'Gay. It is threatening and they leave litter.
Has anyone else had this happen to them and how do you get them to go away without starting a neighbourhood feud?
Jesus, Harringay makes you NIMBY.
I don't know if this is some kind of cultural thing, but I have noted lots of east European men (not teenagers) lurking around having loud conversations while sitting on people's front walls in the 'Gay. It is threatening and they leave litter.
Has anyone else had this happen to them and how do you get them to go away without starting a neighbourhood feud?
Jesus, Harringay makes you NIMBY.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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A drinking ban would work. I work in a grotty, disgusting part of West London, and Ealing council have turned this area in to a non-drinking zone. Gone are the smelly tramps, the alkies shouting abuse from the buss-stop, and the unsavoury smells they produce (youe your imagination here). So it has definitely worked. the police patrolled the area heavily for a while, and not it seem to have sunk in. Result! I would love to have that on the Ladder roads. It's doable. As for the fast food outlets, they have to be made to take more responsibility. Zam's Chicken is our main source of litter on Seymour Road.
And finally, may I suggest a mild electrical current in the wall belonging to the Lion King? That way their customers might stop using it as an urinal!
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Look, am I being a hopeless romantic here (maybe I should move to Berlin, its where all my inspiration comes from) but could those corners actually be redesigned in such as way to make them less inviting and more profitable for the stores.
Most of the litter comes from stuff that is recyclable. How about split bins (pretty ones with pictures, just so people are clear) along the walls for people to put their various cans, bottles into? Zam's should be encouraged to give up polystyrene containers. The trick is that Zam's and Lion King somehow are able to share in the profits that can now be made from flogging recyclable material, particularly plastics, the price of which is going through the roof by ensuring that people use the bins and that the rubbish is cleared and put into them. After all if packaging were a source of income would they be happy to see it swept up in to the pockets of waste companies if they could get it themselves?
Granted I would like to see electric currents for the weeing males of Harringay, when you come across a man urinating merrily in the Passage with no shame whilst you walk past with your daughter it makes you long for for a taser (?) there and then, despite my bleeding heart liberal, do gooder tendancies.
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Liz, nothing wrong with being a romantic, but it's hard when you're dealing with people who do not care. I can't see Zam's or the Lion King giving a stuff about their litter to be honest. I think the only way to get them to take it seriously is to hit them where it hurts, in the cash register. They should be fined for littering when wrappers etc. with THEIR logo is found. £50 per wrapper? That should make them care. I seem to remember someone who imposed such a scheme, got to do some digging to see if it works.
I am not sure how the corners could be re-designed without being a pain in the backside for the rest of us to negotiate?
I'm all for short sharp shocks and punishment, me.
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Ah well.then they would win because they use generic packaging that is the same in all the 'not really chicken' shops across the land. They would simply argue that it could not be proved that the packaging came from them, not Wam's or Bam's chicken. The council would no doubt accept this as we know they are well, chicken, when it comes to enforcing compliance of the rules that they set up. Look at the fiasco that is the timed waste collection on Green Lanes.
Ruth's idea of shaming might work...The Big Tidy Up run by encams is next month, perhaps we can get some green tabards and maybe some mini skirts and wear bunches like these 'environmentalists' from 1968
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MciPiyXES88
I can see you doing that Anette, although you may brain them with your broom if they are rude!
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Liz, great clip!
How about a combination of yours and Ruth's idea, lets' collect what's originally come from them (Zam's) and give it back to them in the morning? As well as harassing the customer that prove to be, well, a tad lax.. or will we end up with an ASBO?
I feel like doing a lot more than thumping someone with a broom!
* flies off on broomstick*
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Permalink Reply by RuthE on
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Do you remember a few years ago some american introduced Guardian Angels on the tube? Red beret wearers, unpaid volunteers, guarding the safety of the british public by smiling at them during rush hour? Obviously it was far too embarrassing ever to work in this country but it did draw attention for the need to improve passenger safety on the underground. Perhaps a group of Hol volunteers (wearing HoL t-shirts NOT berets) could hangaround outside Zams and the Lion King for example and offer to pick up food packaging for people who cant quite make it to the bin cos the poor dears are stuck inside their cars. We could also get a few people sweeping the street behind one of those electric sweeper cars, getting the bits he's missed.
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B2, I'm not sure why drinking cans on a bus is a essential part of inner city life. I agree that not everyone can afford london pub prices but why when you've bought you're 6 cans for a fiver do you feel the need to travel on the 29 bus to drink them? Can't you go home or to a friends? I'm not above a can of lager but I am still slightly confused as to why anyone would need to drink on a bus. Sorry, maybe we'll have to agree to differ on this but I'm afraid the evidence suggests that street drinkers do indulge in anti social behaviour (weeing/vomiting), other residents do find such behaviour intimidating and the results of this 'alfresco dining' can usually be found all over the road the next day.
And why must people who disagree with certain aspects of city life, move out to the 'burbs? What the hell would I do there? Can't see me fitting into the WI really. I think its a little unfair to tell people to leave and move into a Barrat home because they don't like certain things about where they live. Don't they have as much right to express their opinion as those 'exercising their freedom' to drop litter/drink in the street/drop croissant crumbs on the bus ? :D
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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It wasn’t a dig at you Liz and I hope you don’t move to Arcacia Avenue in Herts.
It’s not the need to do so, it’s because they want to, just as people want to drink coffee or eat something sitting on a bench, on train. In a choice of freedom to do whatever pleases them within the framework of the law and who am I to roll up my Guardian to shu them on.
The used cans and smashed bottles littering our Harringay is only a small amount. I say ban eating crisps, chocolate and soft drinks too as they litter my area too. We need perspective, street drinking can lead to anti social behaviour, as it can in licensed premises, when that happens pubs get the licence revoked and common areas get drinking prohibited signs put up, as on Ducketts Common. Talking of Ducketts common, we should ban picnics as some people leave all there rubbish behind, which is anti social and we should ban dogs from there as some people don’t pick up their dogs mess, which is anti social
Using your argument we should ban all fast food outlets as well, including your beloved Papa Johns : )
Do not assume all people who drink whilst in transit or with friends outside a shop will commit anti social behaviour. Again using your point, alcohol in general can lead to anti social behaviour; therefore we should shut the pubs on Green Lanes too.
Which reminds me when me and a few other London Vale fans came back from Luton on the train the other week with a can each, one was CID and another is a vicar from south London. Well we hadn’t won in Luton for over a hundred and ten years so needed to celebrate!
We want more freedom, not less.
Meet you outside the Salisbury next week; I will be the one with a can of White, Wild and Wetmepants sitting on the step : )
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Go on B2, have a dig, I don’t mind. I happily admit that the second I get some money I'm off to the other side of the tracks. Just don't hold your breath, I have no rich relatives likely to pop their clogs anytime soon. Actually, I have no rich relatives, full stop. So I’m here for the long haul, and I’ll do anything I can to make sure that where I live is a nice a place for me to be as possible. Is that so wrong?
I just don't get it. Why is asking people not to behave in a way that's offensive to a lot of their fellow human beings seen as taking away people's personal freedom?
If a society where everyone can do whatever they want when they want is what we’re aiming for then I might as well kill myself now, that’s a world I do not want to live in. With freedom comes a certain amount of responsibility. The responsibility to make sure you act in a manner that does not offend or bother your fellow man.
What’s acceptable to some might be extremely offensive to others. For example getting on the bus with a bag of chips. They stink the place out. The person eating them finds it perfectly nice and acceptable, the vast majority of his fellow passengers may not. I’d say the person eating is in the wrong, not the 10 other people who are bothered by the smell of his food. This does not mean ban chips, just stop people eating smelly food in confined spaces. As an example. I know TFL has tried this, and some people ignore it.
Drinking on public transport is another one. You will know that you’re 1. not drunk, just enjoying a tin, 2. not very likely to be drunk and offensive 3. not going to vomit on someone or urinate on the bus. Your fellow passengers will not know this, and some might feel very uncomfortable and intimidated by it. Is that fair on them? They feel this way because others have been drunk and intimidating, and you are now paying the price for their behaviour. . Crisp and sandwich eaters are honestly not that scary. Ever heard of someone off their hear on crisps, and went on to beat someone up?
I am not against drinking in public per se, but what I have a problem with is the irresponsible individuals who get drunk or out of control, and are being offensive to others. They are not being responsible, and it’s unfair that a minority of idiots are allowed to ruin the quality of life for the vast majority. This is the real issue here.
Yes, we live in an area with a mixed population. Some are educated in the ways of inner city life and how to be considerate, other are not. Some need educating so we can all co-exist relatively peacefully and not wade through an array of litter, vomit, streams of p**s, broken bottles and rotting food. People will just have to understand and accept that in today’s society people find a group drinking on the street intimidating, and find another place to hang out and drink. Or have to put up with bans in they don’t comply.
I doubt it’s possible to change this area too much, Crouch End it will never be. You can try to dress a donkey up as a racehorse, but you will always be able to tell it’s really a donkey…
See you in the Salisbury, I’ll be the one in the D&G dress, diamond tiara and a bottle of Dom Perignon.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I agree - it's not far from "If you don't like it move to Hertfordshire" to "If you don't like it here go back to your own country". I'm sure that 100 years ago someone complained that getting rid of those quaint little kids cleaning chimney's would destroy all the charm of London.
Extreme libertarian attitudes just add up to no change and a complete avoidance of responsibility for the impact your actions have on others.
And yes - drinking booze on public transport is unacceptable - far more I think than smoking. When was the last time you saw someone in a fight because they were really tanked up on a Benson and Hedges?
The freedom to have no regard to the feelings of your fellow human beings is just chauvanism.
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On a very practical note, the bins on Green Lanes are just not big enough in my opinion, which could be why some of the wrappers and packaging and beer cans end up on the pavement. Some days the bins are so full to the brim, you wouldnt want to put your hand in there to balance your rubbish on top of the rest. Green Lanes being a food orientated and traffic congested street is bound to produce more rubbish then some boring high street in Hertfordshire. Personally I dont mind people eating and drinking while in transit (not on my front wall like a few weeks ago) as long as there are enough bins to cope with the amount of rubbish the pedistrians and the shops produce. I suggest we have bigger bins and more of them for Green Lanes.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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I'm with Ruth - bigger bins please, or more frequent emptying. What about some more bins on the side roads like Seymour - currently is nothing from the bottom til the Harringay passage. Get Zams to pay for it??!
Must confess that I'm less bothered where people eat or drink than about what they do with the end result. I know there will always be people who ignore bins etc but surely worth making getting rid of your rubbish as easy as possible?
Do like the idea of doing something re food outlets and their waste - along the name and shame lines proposed earlier.
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