Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Hell that is Wood Green
Yesterday, I had the misfortune to find myself in the shopping mall. Walking out the big automatic doors and into the crowd of Star Wars pub extras who were smoking, spitting and squabbling on the footpath I witnessed what for me sums up the whole carbuncle on the arse of Haringey that is Wood Green High Road. One of the characters stormed through the crowd with his status dog in tow. I was reflecting on the fact that ‘status’ dogs don't seem to work (as the people who have them only ever seem to be what everyone else in society would consider low status). Everything suddenly went quiet except the ever present sirens. The status dog had stopped and released its copious bowels all over the footpath. It was like turning on the light in an HMO; the cockroaches screamed and scattered. The dog owner laughed and walked on. It was probably one of the most disgusting things I have seen or smelt in London. Eventually the crowd returned and watched the next horde trample the mess up and down the road. There was no-one to turn to, no-one to clean up and more importantly no-one with the authority to challenge and/or shoot the dog owner. Things just returned to normal.
The whole experience made me think how the council, local police and traders believe that we're all animals if they are happy for us to have to deal with this every time we go to the High Road. It's easy enough for me to hop on a bus and head off to Crouch End or Islington or even Enfield to shop but if you're older or disabled and have trouble getting around or not enough money for the bus it must be pretty grim to face it every day. Imagine how the standard little old lady dreads heading out into the crowds, litter, phlegm, smoke and anti-social behaviour of Wood Green every morning to get the milk.
Short of manning water cannons at each end of the High Road and employing some mercenaries with batons to control the crowds, I don’t know what can be done. Are there any clever ‘nudges’ or interventions that could improve Wood Green? Is it a matter of tarting the place up and hoping that the crowds respect their new surroundings? Is it signage to remind, and in many instances educate, people that spitting, littering and barging into other people is just not the done thing? Or do we just give up, bulldoze the lot and install a waterhole in the middle and let the law of the jungle and the status dog owners prevail?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by doug on
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Laura, please don't feel bad. The main reason people on here knock Wood Green is because they don't live here, they don't see the sense of community that exists off and around the High Road. All they see is the High Road, usually on a Saturday afternoon, and let's face it, it could do with some improvement.
Let's get some perspective here. Someone sees a dog crap on the pavement, and Wood Green becomes some type of Hell. A few minutes browsing this forum, and you'll soon see threads on muggings, drug dealing, fly tipping, general anti-social behaviour, but is Harringay a Hell hole??? Fair enough, it's a Harringay website so they will have bias.
I live in Wood Green and love it, I often visit the Ladder end of Green Lanes and enjoy it, I have been known to drink in the Salisbury, but prefer the Tollgate as it truely reflects the demographic in which I enjoy living. Maybe if I moved to Harringay, or Crouch End, I could enjoy living there just as much, but for the moment I'll stick to Wood Green.
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Too right KP. I live in Wood Green and work off Crouch End Broadway. I never see kids urinating, but what I do see on a daily basis is adults urinating on my forecourt and the occasional adult having a number two. Some people on here nerd to open their eyes.
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My initial reaction to the High Road, is that it is so busy and full of shops I would (mostly) not shop in, baring the usual Wilkos, Big Green Book Shop etc. I do sometimes go to the cinema but get increasingly frustrated at the attitude of people that it is acceptable to talk and throw drinks at the screen.
Having said that I am keen to find out about any more restaurant/pub/other recommendations in the area. I am keen to try The Paramount, now I have heard some favourable reviews- are there any other places I should try?
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Permalink Reply by Phil.A on
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If you don't like wood green just don't go. Suggesting to bulldoze the place sounds very aggressive and considering the same people are crying because they feel wood green is aggressive, surely they are contradicting themselves
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Yeah you're right. I'm not saying I don't still hate going up there (Saturday afternoons) but it's basically about a couple of bus stops and perhaps some narrow pavements. I'm sorry if I offended anyone who lives there.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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It's the hungry lions outside the library which worry me. But it's okay if you slip past quickly while they're still feasting on smelly librarians.
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Permalink Reply by Lauren on
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The use of Bulldoze was a metaphor. You used one (aggressively) when you suggested I was 'crying' when I merely pointed out something horrible had happened to me that upheld my reason why I don't go to Wood Green very much. Which is not because I don't like Wood Green, but because there are too many aggressive and shady people there which make visiting other places a more viable and enjoyable alternative.
I lived in Wood Green in the mid/late 90's and quite liked it then. There was a good department store (Pearsons) and a better social scene with a good mix of pubs (O'Rafferty's was one of the best pubs in London for a night out) and not just coffee shops and kebab shops, and various outlets selling crap plastic accessories and bits for mobile phones.
"If you don't like wood green just don't go".
This is exactly what is causing the problems we are talking about.
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Permalink Reply by Pat on
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Better yet, why not build enclosed ghettos to ensure that you don't have to mix with the low status people. Just let them out to clean your house and offices then curfew. Then you'll be free to walk around your designated shopping haven free from all these unsavoury people that make your life such hell.
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Why are you conflating mixing with low behaviour, and the aftereffects thereof, with "low status", whatever that means?
I don't give a monkeys about anyone's status. I give not only a monkeys but a whole troupe of gorillas about the degrading impact the minority of people whose behaviour is frankly sub human have on the quality of life of the majority who do not leave dogshit in the middle of the street, wee in the shops or use the streets and parks as a rubbish bin.
I can't tell you what someone's "status" is because I can't tell by looking, but I can see how individuals behave and there are some individuals who frankly none of us should have to mix with.
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Years ago we knew someone whose sister had moved to New York. She described how very upset it made her when she saw homeless people in the streets there.
Especially when she visited one of favourite department stores before Christmas and actually had to step over someone lying asleep in the doorway.
I seem to recall Professor David Harvey (a Brit who teaches in New York) suggesting that Manhattan was on the way to becoming one large open air shopping mall for the rich and for tourists. Will London follow suit?
Are there options which don't involve de facto ghettos? The gated privatised Ground Control described by Anna Minton?
The more people express their views frankly in this thread, the more I think it's potentially at least, one of the most important and possibly fruitful topics raised on Harringay Online.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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There is a good question in amidst all the ranting of the original piece that seems to have been completely missed in the haste to consign dear old Wood Green to the demolition men. Osbawn asks:
Are there any clever ‘nudges’ or interventions that could improve Wood Green? Is it a matter of tarting the place up and hoping that the crowds respect their new surroundings? Is it signage to remind, and in many instances educate, people that spitting, littering and barging into other people is just not the done thing?
Now that hopefully everyone has got it off their chest about how much they can't stand it, is there an answer?
I've picked out from the thread (none of these are my ideas but yours dear readers)
-More community policing to enforce rules re littering, dog mess.
-Better choice in shops and of shops (down to chains but it's worth flagging that some things that you'd expect to be able to get like a black worksuit shouldn't be beyond them). With some interesting things being done with business rates by gov can more interesting indy shops by persuaded to give Wood Green a go and would you try and support them like people do the BGBS?
-Higher contributions for upkeep from traders (not clear about this point needs elaborating)
-Night life being difficult to find and the sterility of the High Street after the shops shut - this is a problem in the US and I believe attempts have been made to get small cafes to put on music nights etc in places where the streets shut down (since as every good reader of Jane Jacobs knows, it is empty streets that make us as nervous as over full ones). Night life that exists needs better promotion?
-More trees
-More 'arty weirdness' brought out of the enclaves of Choc Factory and other places onto the streets
Can we add more to the list? And think of who might genuinely be interested in taking these ideas forward?
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