Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Local Labour selection meetings
By the end of this evening our local Labour party will have selected who will represent us after the local body elections next year. I hear that it has been complete change in St Anns with Councillor Canver stepping down and Councillors Brabazon and Brown deselected. Will this be the end of the bollards in the gardens?
Any bets on whether or not they'll have a quorum at the Harringay ward selection meeting?
Tags for Forum Posts: election2014, labour
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Okay, I'll tell you the real truth.
We all sit in silence in darkness holding hands around the table. Then the spirit of former councillor Fred Knight knocks the table to indicate who we must choose. We file out quietly moving in time to the music.
It works every time.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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Thanks Alan but I did mean ward Councillors - even many people reading this thread seem to me to be full of misinformation as to who Councillors are and what they do, and why.
I wouldn't be surprised if the process of selecting a local Councillor in each ward is awful whatever party you belong to. Expectations for engagement have been set by Facebook and all the parties seem to be in the stone age. The recent Tory decision that the parties will have to use the credit-rating companies like Experian to obtain data about people is a big blow. Here's a leaked slide from a Spectator piece about the Lib Dems from this time last year:
I heard a Lib Dem conference delegate on BBC Parliament yesterday say that the real cost of the Lib Dems database software is £150k/yr. I think the central parties have 'corporatised' the effort and guess that 'command and control' thinking has turned the local wards into branches similar to the way the banks are - empty vessels for the implementation of central policy.
What better opportunity is there for the local branch of a political party to involve people than by asking them to join in the selection of someone to represent them to the Council? What a missed opportunity for the Council to encourage local people to get involved. People seem keen to criticise what Haringey does on their behalf yet get away with not even being bothered to look at those hoping for selection, let alone express an opinion.
I'd like to see big photos in local public places of all the candidates, with slogans from each and a way of finding out more about them, all paid for by the Council. 'Would you buy a used car from this person?' comes to mind :)
I also like:
'You'll get the local Councillor you deserve'
How about:
£50/day job going working for this ward - some anti-social hours, suit outgoing personality.
or:
'The point is to change it'
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"... big photos in local public places of all the candidates, with slogans from each and a way of finding out more about them, all paid for by the Council."
Which actually means, Chris, all paid for with our money taken from us in taxes. Which in practice is not far from what now happens with Labour councillors. And perhaps the LibDems as well?
There's a compulsory levy which goes into Labour Party funds. And helps among other things to pay for the leaflets hardly anybody reads. Which of course means that parties with small or no council representation must rely on their own fundraising. Or perhaps donations from the occasional local millionaire?
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Sounds like you're resistant to change, Alan.
What's wrong with the Council spending a little money encouraging people to vote exactly? Nobody surely believes nowadays that one small spend somewhere will deprive another more vital area, when the council can suddenly splash out at a moment's notice?
I once lived in Copenhagen at a time when more than half of the people were reportedly usefully employed by the government (in the 70's). Why not try to build a society like that? All the 'strategic' industries that have been privatised are gaming the state, overcharging like mad and making billions of untaxed profit - 'our money' as you describe it.
The more jobs there are in government helping the country to grow in an agreed manner, the more chance we get the society we want, rather than that the 1% want.
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Chris, councils across the UK do "spend a little money encouraging people to vote..." As does Haringey. Nothing whatever wrong with encouraging voter registration. Nothing wrong with e.g. clear, neutral information on the Council's website.
But big photos of all the candidates paid for out of public money? Is that really what local democracy needs? How about having some paid-for song and poetry as well?
Comrade Nicolae Ceauşescu, all children
Are bringing you burning love from their souls,
Because you, leading the Party and the people,
Are teaching us to move forward.I'm not against change. One change I advocate is tougher controls on politicians using what should be politically neutral, publicly funded media to influence their electors or bolster their image. Politicians of any party
Chris, if you want to support a Party, join it. And pay the subs and send donations from your own pocket. But please, not from mine.
And you know what? There's no magic knapsack which refills itself. Money spent on A can't also be spent on B.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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@ Alan, asking people to join a party because they want to find out what's going on, to lift the veil, is a step too far. As I describe above, observing the process of candidate selection from slightly inside the party has been fascinating and horrifying in equal parts. Is there no way this process can be exposed to those outside the party?
There's no point in joining a party, a group, a campaign, whatever, unless one gets involved - except of course those who 'join' only to make sure their mates get the jobs they want.
Milliband and the rest of the national party hardcore have made a huge mistake if they think people will switch from paying a donation to the Labour Party through their union, which then gives support to the party in their name, to signing up to be actual party members, with the obligations and restrictions that entails. Will those 5 million union members all happily sit for hours in bleak church halls?
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Pamish, I'd go further and put fwd the idea that party politics as it stands now is almost an irrelevance to most people in this country. Joining up/giving a donation to a political party is probably the last thing on their minds. They look at the 3 main parties and wonder 'why bother to even vote' - all 3 look pretty much the same. So a little donation probably goes to their favourite charity instead.
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That's what they want you to think :)
We have to get involved because if we don't, who have we got to blame?
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Politics is first about Voice.
Healthy politics is partly about making your voice and views heard. But also - and crucially - about listening to and deliberating on other people's voices and views. With the aim of building informed judgements on what should be done by us collectively - the community - and by the people elected to represent us.
"Exit, Voice and Loyalty", a little book by Albert Hirschman, influenced my thinking. In brief it said that in many situations - at work; when making a purchase; in an organisation - you have three broad options. To speak up and try to change things; to stay loyal and keep quiet; to give up and leave.
The problem with exiting party politics is that the main parties are not corpses with maggot activity giving an illusion of movement. True, they may be hollowed out, dried-up husks of proud political movements. But there are people inside pulling the levers and exercising power. If ordinary residents give up and walk away from the political parties, that endorses their takeover by small groups for their own sectional and personal interests.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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My thinking has been influence by a lot of little books and some bigger ones :)
I think we're in the most unhealthy political situation there can be - a complete lack of mandate - the politicians cannot get the majority to vote so, by definition, politics is broken. People care, it's just that the political class have destroyed the good will we owe our representatives.
What seems to be happening is that people are letting the professional politicians stew in their own juice and expressing their deeply felt desires towards communal progress by getting behind single issues. Many, many sites have sprung up - here's a new one to me -Thunderclap.
Most of the people in local parties that I've met around here are clueless as to how to work modern technology and I wouldn't be surprised if that was true nationally. Also, they have their heads in the sand as to door-knocking and leaflets - they simply cling to them hard with no proof they works, and squander the efforts of those they convince to do it. I think it's counter-productive but let's not go into that.
Just look at each party's ward Facebook pages (do they actually have one?) and you'll see why this website is a paradise of engagement in comparison. Facebook is a way to electronically reach people under their own names - that's an incredible opportunity - most internet users don't use their real names (this site being one such example).
In terms of numbers of votes cast (yes, I know they're not 'safe' to count) people are more active than ever and the parties are too full of old fogies clinging to post-war command and control views. The next generation will change things for the better, but I want it now.
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I agree with all you say Chris - the political situation is very unhealthy at the moment. But at least one issue politics/pressure groups are alive and well.
We have a coalition because this is what people voted for last election (although we didn't know it at the time). Probably we will have a coalition 2015 as well - the LDs certainly seem to think so.
A lot of countries have some sort of coalition situation, not perfect but no system is, as we all know. 2015 may see Labour & the LDs or Tories & UKIP - who knows. One thing, it's going to rip politics as we know it apart, financially, ethically, etc. Perceived 'wisdom', as you imply above, is going to be severely strained. Never mind reforming this government service and that health provision - it's the politics of this country that needs the most reform!
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Yes, yes and a no, Chris.
Technology is a tool. A very useful tool which can expose the power of the Commanders and Controllers in their well-defended cave.
Exit - leaving the cave for the fresh air and sunlight - is fine. But it doesn't change or challenge that power if the machinery of control remains firmly buried inside the cave. (In our case, in River Park House, the Leadership bunker.)
Transparency by itself helps. But it's like the Situationist retelling of the allegory of Plato's Cave, where someone accidentally knocks a hole in the cave wall. Light floods in, so they make windows.
When one innocent idealist suggests they go outside into the fresh air and sunshine they all laugh at this absurd idea.
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