Coliseum Building under renewed threat of Betting shop lease

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hugh on January 25, 2013 at 8:46

Esat, good to get another perspective from a local business person. I don't disagree with most of what you say, but a couple of bits of extra information.

I'm not sure that I was aware of the sense of victory about which Clive wrote and you hinted at. Personally I was keenly aware that what we achieved last year was very much just a stay of execution. I remember reading people expressing pleasure and relief, but I don't recall ever sensing celebration of a victory.

After all the public discussion, there was a lot of behind the scenes work put in by a group of people into developing a programme of events for the space. Despite the short timescales, a pretty credible programme had been put together. The only reason the space was never used was because Rob and the traders were unable to secure the promised access to the premises.

More also went on than you might imagine on in finding an alternative tenant. I know, for example, that Rob put a lot of work into investigating local options as well as approaching a range of organisations nationally. I put some time into looking in to using the space as a co-working space, but couldn't see a way to finding funding in a short timescale.

From the start, I don't think any of us involved ever assumed there would be an easy solution. There were ongoing discussions with KfH from the summer onwards. The only reason the discussion became public was because we learned that whilst exploring options with us, they went ahead and reached agreement with Tipco. The public campaign was to buy more time to continue discussions that had been going on anyway.

I still find it hard to believe that there is no other solution than a betting shop. I haven't been able to find it, nor it seems has anyone else. I think it was laudable that public opinion expressed through this site and elsewhere was able to achieve a stay of execution. It bought a chance. Saving a last minute arrival of the cavalry, it seems it may not in the end lead to anything. We have this time and time again with resisting betting shops; whether it's working with the Council to fight them in the courts or working with companies like KfH, it seems like we always hit a brick wall. This would have been a sticking plaster. Ultimately, it's the law that needs changing,

Ideally, we'd all be able to finger a solution or put time into finding one. I guess people do the best they can and I would certainly never discourage people from voicing their opinions and applying public pressure in a similar situation. 

Having said all that, I am still waiting for the cavalry. So if anyone knows where they are........

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Permalink Reply by ant on January 25, 2013 at 9:37

I don't think the its a fair or valid comment about HoL people just venting and complaining and didn't help. HoL did an excellent job of making people aware of what was going on and galvanizing them into action. The threads went quiet because a lot people then did go off and start working on real things to try to help. So well done HoL. What quickly became apparent however was that the offers of community use for a month and the two year community lease just weren't really going to happen or be practical.

Is the only thing that matters here if KFH loses money or for Paul Simon to make as much as possible? What price do we put on our community and neighbourhood? Don't KFH and Paul Simon have any obligations to the areas they work in? What should happen if they cared about our community is for the lease to be renegotiated to a more workable price so something that enhances the centre of our community can afford to go there.

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Permalink Reply by Karin on January 25, 2013 at 10:05

Clive - those residents are foremost in my mind here. Years ago I lived above a betting shop in Edinburgh and the noise/mess was awful. I started work early and most times I would be stepping over bodies as I came out of the door to the street. Coming back at night my flatmate (male) was hassled many times for money or fags and myself and my other flatmate (female) got dogs abuse from the shop's punters who were generally pissed.

I totally understand there are huge social issues behind gambling/drink/drug abuse but living in that flat was not pleasant. Those who know me in real life know I am not some damsel in distress but to come home from work to then have someone yelling at you or coming up close and asking for money was really horrible.

So I have huge sympathy for the residents of the flats above and I hope that their lives are not blighted by this betting shop.

Interestingly enough my neighbour is about to put his house on the market (large 5 bed house so worth a few bob) and he has told me that he will never use Paul Simon or KFH due to this. 

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Permalink Reply by Esat Karahasan on January 25, 2013 at 11:49

I think my comments in general where both very fair and valid, though you seem to have misunderstood what I meant. I agree totally that HOL has been a big help if not the main reason Tipico is not already occupying the premises,. granted, though of those that joined the discussion and aired their views against both KFH and Paul Simon how many actually came forward and had a real involvement in actually helping 10/20% max I would assume.

HOL is a fantastic resource for the community though time and again I notice people on here airing their opinions which they are free to but what happened to taking positive action!

As Hugh may remember I became aware of HOL recently as a neighbour of mine whom is a very active member on here felt it was right to start a blog on here about me an my property and my apparent illegal conversion, this was followed by that person also making complaints to the local authority and further investigations - in turn causing me to have to stop work for an extended period and ultimately caused financial loss and strain.

Had that neighbour taken the time to walk two doors up and knock on my door and ask me what I was doing with the property (as many other neighbours did) they would have found their worries to be unfounded as I was doing a major refurb but in no way a conversion especially not an illegal one. 

And again I feel the same happened here, I appreciate there where many involoved, but not nearly as many that complained.

Its just my opinion but I feel a fair and valid point, you don't have to agree.

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on January 25, 2013 at 14:44

The elephant in the room is the £70K lease. Let's say it's not massively over the odds but looking at Selale on the other side of Tesco I'd say that the inability to run a restaurant in there is the major stumbling block to getting someone other than a bookmaker to take over the lease. Both the high rent and the lack of A3 planning permission are down to Paul Simon Commercial. They crop up time and again on HoL for being the worst kind of estate agents. That's why I'm happy to do my bit and drag them back into the limelight here in this thread. It's called applying pressure and I hope that the fact that I've taken some care with my English and my argument (as you have BTW) gives it some more gravity than had I just bleated about how awful they were.

Paul Simon Commercial, A3 or a reduction in "rent" down to £60K?

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Permalink Reply by Esat Karahasan on January 25, 2013 at 16:22

Well I have to say that in this case its not so much Paul Simon who are not wanting a restaurant its the residents above and Paul Simon seem to be acting amicably with their resident s there at the least. However, I don't dispute that not allowing A3 use does further limit the prospective occupants to the businesses that we all seem not to want there.

We must also remember that in a financial climate like our current one any business will think twice about spending say anything over £30k a year so I don't think bringing it down to 60 will help for one. Consider it like this for example £60k rent, business rates Im guessinf atleast £10k, another £2-3k on utilities minimum, that size unit regardless of business will employ atleast 10-15 staff= £100k minimum at average salaries, the advertising cost on a company in this league alone could amount to anything from £10k minimium upwards. Thats £182k per annum at minimums and I bet Im hitting very low. That no bonuses, commision, maintenance, company vehicles, etc etc etc and mainly no profit margin?! 

On the other hand perhaps the residents should be given the choice of restaurant (A3) or betting office and see what they say, but ha there even been any interest from restaurants at all? 

I agree with you that yes Paul Simon might not be helping as much as they could, and yes KFH may only be looking to save their own bacon, but other than pointing the finger what are we really doing to help.

I think its time some one started making calls to prospective companies you would like to see there Ive only seen one such comment in the thread thus far mentioning M&S local, Waitrose, Oddbins or similar, now whilst that may be difficult due to neighbouring with Tesco, I think this is the though track and process we should head down.

I'll even make the calls if I'm you can put a decent list together though I'm sure KFH or PS are more qualified and able to do this.

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Permalink Reply by Nick G-T on January 25, 2013 at 16:03

Hugh, is the floor plate lage enough for a Sainsbury's Local (err or a little Waitrose) or a coffee shop like Costa? (Not sure if a coffee shop can open in there.) I much prefer indie shops but would happily compromise and welcome a chain/national supermarket in there than a betting shop. I would have thought that with the impending regeneration of Green Lanes that this would be a prime spot to open in and there'd be more takers than betting shops. Are these company's aware of the regeneration and the (hopefully) increased footfall the regeneration will bring?

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on January 25, 2013 at 16:08

I think it's probably a wee bit small for a "local" chain supermarket outlet, but I may be wrong. I agree it's a prime spot. That has been impressed upon KfH by Rob in the hope that this would help them find a better quality tenant. 

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Permalink Reply by Liza on January 25, 2013 at 17:18

costa or such like is a good idea. well, its a hideous idea, but so much better than a betting shop and perfect for being next to proposed 'town square'.

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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on January 25, 2013 at 17:39

Couldn't Paul Simon move in there and their double fronted shop could become a restaraaaaaun' ?

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Permalink Reply by Liz on January 25, 2013 at 17:50

Paul Simon and Paul Simon Commercial aren't the same company anymore. The shop and name were bought out a while back

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on January 25, 2013 at 17:55

Now, in principle there's an idea Birdy. Nice lateral thinking. I'm assuming it doesn't depend on the two PS's being the same company. In any event, it needn't. Just gotta make the figures work!

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