Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Possible illegal conversion
News has reached me that there are plans to convert a house a few doors away into flats. Now, as I understand it, this is not allowed in the Ladder - am I right? I suspect they intend it as an HMO and have no intention of applying for permission. What should I do to nip this in the bud?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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I have emailed the planning department and they have "opened a case" and say they will visit very shortly. The problem sometimes with these visits is that if they cannot gain access, they can't really tell what's going on. My hope is that they will see that this is a single family house and their visit will put the wind up the owners sufficiently that they decide not to convert - however I think it's unlikely, as they are builders and have no doubt heard how easy it is to get away with illegal conversions.
Apparently the usual tactic is to claim that it was already converted into, say 2 flats, and that you now want to make it into 3 or 4. You then build six bedsits and let them out immediately while you wrangle with the council planning department. This seems to circumvent the "no conversion" rule, as the building is deemed to be already divided. I have lived two doors down from this house for eighteen years and there has only ever been one family living there - but I don't know if planning consult with neighbours, or simply take what the owner says at face value. At least if the planners go in to look now, they will see that it was not yet converted.
I'm definitely keeping tabs on this one. Where my sister lives, the planning laws are so tightly enforced that she had to go to appeal merely to change the height of a bathroom window!
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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You're spot on about the tactics some developers use, the same things has happened several times in my street. You may not be consulted if an application is made as they usually only consult immediate neighbours. One to keep an eye on.
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Permalink Reply by Esat Karahasan on
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Maddy, I ambthe neighbour who's property you seem so concerned over. Firstly may I say I am terribly disappointed that after so many years of living a few doors away that you felt unable to simply ask any one of the family about our intentions or plans with the property. We are all very approachable and as residents at the address for 29 years now have some strong relationships with most of the residents, most of whom have asked and have been told, some even pop in just to see progress and have a chat. In your case i would have felt approaching us would have been your first point of call especially as you appear to be such a proactive pillar of our local community, instead felt it more appropriate to make complaints to the local authority sparking investigations and post your opinions and concerns in a public forum causing me to find out through third parties (this constitutes an act of internet slander).These "concerns and opinions" seem quite well thought through and planned, as you state our family business is building and property services and has been for over 20 years and with all the experience we have gained in that time we never even begun to think that what you have researched and accused us of was even possible!
We have no such plans at all, never have and never will. The property will remain in our families ownerships and we have invested a lot of money modernising and maintaining the property AS A HOUSE and will be renting it as just that which can be confirmed by local estate agents Anthony Pepe and Winkworth as well as Haringey Planning and Building Regs, we are not convertih into flats, not creating a HMO and most certainly not doing anything illegal. I dont know what uou have heard or where it has come from though hear say and assumptions are never good things to go by. We are professionals in the field and as such have notified the local authorities of all planned and carried out works none of which is a conversion or extension as I'm sure you where told, and I therefore welcome you and any representitive if the local authorities to carry out any investigations or inspections you wish to as a neighbour my door is always open. The work is literally days from completion and we hope to find high calibre tenants soon. Further to this I would just like to point out that when you somehow got some special treatment and had a gate opened at the rear of your garden which created a security risk to your neighbours properties including ours, we could have acted in the same way you have, instead being reasonable people we let you be without a murmur. I am utterly disappointed.
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Esat I apologise for any upset I've caused you. I heard "on the grapevine" that conversion of the house into flats was a possibility, and you're right I should have asked you directly rather than listened to rumour, but I have not seen any of the family for quite a while.You've obviously been working very hard on repairing the house - I know you had some serious problems to contend with - and I'm sure you will be very responsible landlords.
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Esat, it was a honest mistake, this is a little harsh. If Maddy's not seen any of you then how could she ask? Just saying.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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"A little harsh?"
I think you've raised a very important general point, Anette. By this I mean thinking about the way we all use publicly available websites - many like this with thousands of visitors. It made me look again at some of my recent posts. Asking myself: who is likely to read it? How will they know the context? Will my attempts at humour fall flat. (I know the answer to that one.)
Plainly the guiding principle is a bit older than the internet. The "Golden Rule" : post unto websites about others as you would have others post unto you.
By the way, I'm not against "harsh". I'm told that my Labour colleague Joe Goldberg described me as "a harsh critic". That's a compliment I treasure. But I try for harsh, fair and accurate.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I think in the context of what is going on in Harringay (a.k.a. bedsit land) you should not be surprised at Maddy's initial reaction, it would have been mine too.
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Yes, as you can see it was my reaction too. I lowered a mental "frame" over what appeared to be the presenting problem. It happened to be the wrong frame.
No excuses: I've been around these practical problems for a while. And read some of the theory as well.
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@John, it would have been mine too, we all have to be on the lookout. 9 out of 10 there's a rougue landlord converting. You just never know.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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When I moved into my wreck of a house, a member of the planning enforcement team appeared at my door about a week after the skip arrived. I showed him around, explained what we were doing and he left, presumably relieved that he could close this particular case for good since the house had been the subject of numerous visits re illegal conversion by the previous absentee owner and rogue landlord. At the time, I wondered what had triggered the visit and then discovered it was one of my neighbours who had reported me. You know, I didn't mind at all and wasn't the least bit upset even though I'd only been in the street for a few weeks. He could have wandered down to ask me what I was doing but maybe he didn't want to, it can be a bit embarrassing asking people what they are doing in their own homes.
I know it's an old chestnut and is sometimes applied wrongly but I had nothing to fear because I was doing nothing wrong. If HOL had been going then, I might have found my house the subject of a speculative post like this and I might have been a bit put out, but having set the record straight, I think it would then have been the time to let it go, in a 'move on, nothing to see here' fashion. Ditto, this posting I think?
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I hadn't even noticed the responses people later added to this and just wanted to set the record straight. The work at the property has been done by myself, father and brother - although from time to time there was some additional help though there was always some one from the family present. There was plenty opportunity for Maddy to have asked anyone of us about the work and our intentions, opportunity that other neighbours have taken. With this in mind I feel the action and my comments where not harsh at all but assertive instead. As you will note Maddy admitted it was wrong to have acted in the manner or order she did and agreed she should have asked directly. The complaint Maddy raised with the council resulted in us having to stop all works whilst investigations where completed meaning we actually made undue financial losses as a result. Also the comments initially made as you can still see went beyond caring for the community or locality and where in fact libellous and unfounded accusations.
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