Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Liz to lead rubbish session at this week's Area Assembly
Allons enfants de Harringay,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé !
This week's Area Assembly is the first under its new chair, Cllr Zena Brabazon.
Zena wants more resident involvement so she's handing the floor over to the residents.
Liz has been asked to have first bash and is leading a session on rubbish issues.
Surely it's worth coming just for that. It's just down the road on Green Lanes - full details here.
Tags for Forum Posts: area assembly, area forum, new recycling bins, veolia
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Where there are only small, or no, frontyards, the only answer has to be communal bins on the street, emptied daily. I keep saying this and maybe it will eventually get through. You lose a parking place every x yards but I see no other downside. Except they will have wasted money on all the new bins, but maybe they can be used for the next tranche of installations where people have big enough gardens and few enough dwellings, to be able to accomodate two bins. More than two is just ridiculous.
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Permalink Reply by abstractjuz on
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I acknowledge that mine is a small household (just 2 people) but the vast majority of our waste is recyclable - which means the vast majority of our waste is collected every week. Even with the current problems - the new system suits us.
So just out of interest - are there people on this thread who are saying that in 2 average weeks - their household generates much more than 1 wheelie bins worth of non-recyclable rubbish? Or is the main concern here people who - for whatever reason - aren't recycling?
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If you have children in nappies it's easy to fill up a wheelie bin in a week!
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Not sure I can agree with you on the point re nappies, Billy.
Both of mine used them, full time when I wasn't working and part time because as you say childcare doesn't usually accommodate them. Even part time usage cuts down number of disposables to have to get rid of. We are the first generation to expect to use disposables all the time and its probably a habit the planet can't afford. Can't blame this one on the baby boomers.
With modern powders and washing machines, it becomes pretty easy to launder them. Also modern reusables are amazingly easy compared to terries so might it not be possible to use them for weekends? I also have a problem with the poo in the bin thing. Unless there is a disaster (and I know they happen, dear lawd don't I know) even a disposable can be 'emptied' of solids in the toilet before disposal.
A much bigger problem is food waste in the bins. That has to be got right. Even if you're sticking all your dry recycling into the new bins, 2 weeks of food is going to stink.
I agree re Xmas. I wonder if they are planning for it. Might be worth an ask.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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I'm with Billy on the nappies sorry Liz. I've two kids in nappies presently, we briefly tried reusables once but they are far far too much extra work. Perhaps we're just rubbish house keepers but we barely keep up with the daily chores and clothes washing as it is.
The answer IMHO is to go back to weekly collections. Didn't the LibDems promise they'd do that at the next council elections anyway, and I expect Labour will do that too if it looks like they'll lose over it. Just a shame we have to put up with this till 2014.
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Dont' know if we can afford it. Significant differences in price between recycling waste and landfill. LDs could only afford it in the short term by taking Eric Pickles' bin money offer for a year. Doesn't fix it long term. If we can't make this work, then something else will have to give re money. For that reason, I *want* this to work. I'd rather have youth clubs than weekly collections if it comes to it. There has to be a way to make this work and I'm sure we residents can help with that.
and I'm sorry I can't persuade you to even consider part time use of reusables. As I say, I'm not sure full time use of disposables is a long term habit that the planet can bear. (re link other makes of reusable are available
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Going back to weekly collection doesn't necessarily mean less recycling, if it was pitched right - eg we'll try it but if recycling goes down we'll have to go back to fortnightly - then recycling may even go up. Also, i expect presently there is far more contamination of the recycling rubbish than there used to be so they wont be saving quite as much as it may look.
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I quite agree. The HMOs I pass start filling their green recycling bins once the 3 or 4 wheelies are overflowing. To be honest if you are stuck in a bedsit you probably wouldnt want to have 3 different bins on the go, or run up and down the stairs each time you have something for the recycling bin. You have one rubbish bin and empty it on a daily basis to avoid bad smells. Separately even if you managed to get everyone to sort their rubbish it still leaves the problem with many front gardens packed with up to 8 wheelie bins which is not exactly helping create a nice local environment. Maybe they need to switch it so that they collect refuse every week and recycling every two weeks. Most of those who recycle used to fill 2 boxes per week so we would probably fit two week's worth in to a wheelie bin?
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Dane,
There's no reason why people in bedsits can't recycle like everyone else. You deal with walking up and down stairs the same way you deal with all the other things that are part of high density accommodation.
If rubbish is overflowing because these HMOs are unlicensed/illegal or just crammed beyond 'respectful' levels - then that's a different (and bigger) problem (Sure - it's a problem anyway - but rubbish overflowing is just a symptom of that).
It rubbish is overflowing mainly because people aren't recycling - then that seems to bear out my original point - the system might work better if people are able to engage better.
Edit: I acknowledge that there might be legitimate reasons why getting up and down stairs of a legitimate dwelling might be difficult for some people - but I maintain that in those cases, rubbish overflowing is likely to be a symptom of other, bigger problems.
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I think there is more that one issue here.The system can work for small households with high engagement who can manage with two bins per house and maybe can even have the smaller version because they can get the waste they generate down to a minimum - like me (see photo).
BUT the system comes badly unstuck when it is scaled up to accomodate the large numbers of shared dwellings in the neighbourhood and does not take account of the issues around a lot of short term members of the community. A significant number of households are having a big impact because they are not recycling, or because they generate a lot of waste, or because there 8 or more 'households' in a house designed to accomodate only 1 or 2 at most. Even if you reach a household of tenants that begins to use the new system, 6 months from now that could change so it means that planning for ongoing engagement must be built into the arrangements. It seems a trifle like fire-fighting at the moment, only with a very small fire blanket. The issues around street scape where the arrangements create 'wall of bin' or the loss of an amenity like your own front garden are not even being addressed.
There is a lack of flexibility. It's not even clear to many what they can and can't 'have' in terms of bins and there has been a rather heavy handed approach where people have asked to have recycling bags instead of bins because they don't want big bins in the garden being told no. It surely should be down to the households to decide what works best for them.
The lack of regular and complete collections are adding to the confusion. Veolia say there were surprised at the immediate take up of recycling but why? If you know that most of your waste will be taken weekly if you sort it, it makes sense to most to do that so as not to create mountains of waste for the fortnightly part. Yet Veolia were not ready for it and are running to stand still with regard to operational issues. The knock on of this for those not yet under the new arrangements in Tottenham is that their previously regular collections are now disrupted too because Veolia have not yet adapted to the increased tonnage of recycling (yes, a good thing and saves us money but to not plan for that seems ridiculous).
It is not the aspiration of the council that is at fault here but the implementation which appears inadequate to the task in hand and which is causing people to question whether the level of service they are receiving has dropped. One also has to ask why the haste? There is almost unanimous agreement that a longer period of engagement before the change over would have been enormously helpful but a months notice and a leaflet was all in reality we got. Fine for some like you and me, but clearly not enough to reach the wider, less engaged community.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Too far, too fast, is my tentative view. And not enough learning from phase one.
Yesterday Zena and I saw and took some photos of a few streets in St Ann's ward, Seven Sisters and Bruce Grove. We spotted some serious problems which we are reporting. (Photos later today on Flickr.)
We spoke to people near one block of flats who told us that the mounting reeking rubbish hadn't been collected for nearly a fortnight. Well, to be completely accurate Zena asked two residents who didn't speak English and then a third who did. I talked to a fourth person leaving the building who seemed both thoughtful and upset about the situation. But he didn't know a new system had been introduced; nor why the bins hadn't been emptied; nor who to phone to report this.
I'm not suggesting the problems we highlighted were representative. And I'm well aware from other photos I've taken over the years that I tend to "confirmation bias". In other words, I have a rough 'theory-in-use' which carries a danger of selecting evidence which confirms it. So yes, there were also streets where the new arrangements seemed to be working more-or-less okay.
Another point: I've been up and down many other roads where there are real problems about dumping, litter and waste bins. But where - sadly - my old photos or Google StreetView don't show much change before and after the new system.
I find it fascinating how the debate on this issue becomes increasingly polarised - for people on both sides of the argument. Which is a big loss. I listened carefully to Liz Ixer's presentation and the debate which followed. I also posted on Flickr the photos which she and Zena took. At the forum meeting I thought Liz was rightly critical - but very fair. I also found most of the points made at the meeting relevant and helpful.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor - new waste arrangements in Phase #3)
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