Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
A conversation with a survivor of the bombed out houses in Fairfax Road
Earlier today, I popped by Adam Coffman's house in Fairfax Road. Whilst we were chatting outside his house, an older chap poked his head round the fence and pointing at the 1960s flats now filling the gap in the Victorian terraces where a doodlebug hit in 1944, "There y'are", he said, "Used to be number 105 there. I was born there in 1940. I was a war baby. It got 'it by a V1. I was only young but I remember it like yesterday. It wasn't the noise or the fire. It was the pressure I remember most. Tremendous force, it was like nothing I felt since. My dad used to be a French polisher. I think my brother was 'ome. He did the radars on HMS Hood. He was one of the few survivors.............."
And so this rich seam of local history poured out unabated (and unabateable). David (David Richard Norman, to do him justice) later lived in Umfreville Road, where in the 1980's he helped to get Railway Fields established and chose its name. Apparently it was nearly called Green Lanes Park!
I've given him my number and he's promised to get in touch and share his memories on 'tape'. He's also promised that he'll post a copy of a long letter he wrote to the Journal back in 1980 about his experiences in WWII Harringay.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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...and I'm going to suggest that you have made a misreading of this post.
If someone was born in 1940, their earliest memories are going to be war and the aftermath. However, I don't get the sense that that those would have been the only memories that Adam's neighbour had to share.
As you know, that generation was shaped by the war on both sides. While Germans struggled to come to terms with a difficult history and rebuild a country in the shadow of past atrocities and future fears, so this country reacted also by turning away from what they had seen or done. Their children (and grandchildren like me) were not to be burdened with the things that they had to do. They wanted to build something new, better and safer. The children of war kicked against the past, reshaped it to fit the mood of the age because they remembered it. We the grandchildren don't and so the stories do fascinate. To suggest that war is not an essential part of what Europe is (and I don't just mean WW1/WW2 but also all the small wars between the big ones) is to accept a sanitised and unrealistic picture of history.
Anything buried at the back of the family closet is always fascinating. I still don't know everything that my grandparents did in the war but little by little (and she is nearly 90) she reveals a little more. Of course, I want to listen. The Harringay RAF pilots are likely to be no longer with us, it becomes harder and harder to find anyone who was of an age to have fought. If we can record their memories, we should.
You leap on any mention of the war with all the zeal I would expect of someone who has spent a long time in Germany and who has absorbed the national consensus about the past as evidence of 'our obsession' yet you know full well that the site is full of other memories given the right picture or stimulation. You have taken part yourself in such discussions about the 60s. I believe at one point I asked you to record some of your memories.
Recording oral history is interesting, time consuming and not always easy. There should be no limits on what or who we record. Everyone has a right to a voice.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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My leap as you call it, comes from being continually bombarded with WW2 on the BBC.. I wouldn't mind getting a fiver for every time is was mentioned.. and as I say, never, OK, virtually never, in a reflective mode..
No, it's always 'Bessie Braddock' in 'er Tin Helmet fighting the Jerries off.. You** still don't seem to me to have got past that stage.. ** Not you personally Liz!
My call is for more objectiveity on the subject..
and @Hugh .. I'm certainly not a luv.. you may try to want to try and make me look *niedlich* .. but my comments, I think, are well founded.. I thought too much was being made of one man's experiences, however interesting and valuable.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I don't want to make you look anything, Stephen. That was an affectionate hand on the shoulder, not a needle. As I said I'm making the most of what was put under my nose.
When it comes to your degree of luvliness, I'll let you be the judge of that.
By the way, what is niedlich (or indelicate as my iPad would have it)?
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Niedlich? Take your pick.. :o) http://de.bab.la/woerterbuch/deutsch-englisch/niedlich
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Nah, you got that one wrong, but I'm happy to moderate myself if I've offended you.
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Liz, regarding my time in Germany.. Yes, it's a long time and I've seen how the reflections on the NS time have changed over the years.
Of course, the 'Tater' generation has now gone, making it easier to show how things really were. These days, you can even stand right next to that famous gold cubicle in which Eichmann was tried in Jerusalem at an exhibition here: and I've done that. I'm not trying to refute any guilt on the part of Germany.
We've known each other for quite a few years now and you know that my worry has always been that the British still have a one-sided approach to WW2 and more so WW1. I just really would like to see that change and see the humility of also at last accepting that very many 'bad' things were done in the name of good.
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I think you might be surprised at how many of us already take that for granted, S. Equally I suppose I could be surprised at how few do.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Stephen. I was born in Germany, and have read about the German experience in the war (extensively). This is not about some percieved stuck record, but parts of our local community such as Fairlands have a historic voice, and that voice will fade over time. We will lose the knowledge these voices bring and we shall be poorer for it if we are not careful. We should capture it, hear it and thank our stars we do not have to live like our grandparents generation!
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I wasn't actually going to reply Justin.. I read your comment yesterday and basically agree with you..
In another comment I also mentioned Eichmann's 'Gold Box'. Last night, I sorted out the photo, taken last August, and lo and behold, the box is not gold at all - it's wood and chrome. - The relevance?
I often wonder how much people remember are actual memories and how much are actually snippets of information from the media and experiences that occurred in the meantime. Especially over a period of 60-70 years. I'm not doubting what our 'Zeitzeuge' here is saying.. childhood memories are most usually the strongest and stay with us until old age.. What I am saying is, maybe we shouldn't just take these 'oral histories' at face value, but analyse them thoroughly and match them up with the facts as known.
The said box - Eichmann's 1961 trial box from Jerusalem - seen at the 'Topographie des Terrors' exhibition at the site of the Gestapo headquarters in Berlin. http://www.topographie.de/en/topography-of-terror/nc/1/
Click on the picture at the right to get a view of the site: http://www.topographie.de/en/the-historic-site/
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You're such a luv Stephen.
As far as the period was concerned, if a chap talking about an eighteenth century ancestor had poked his head round Adam's fence that would have suited me. Likewise a mod or a punk. As it 'appens it was a self described 'Battle of Britain' baby.
As to why I've suggested oral history, this man really talks. If you fancy doing it by phone and transcribing the interview, I step aside, Sir.
I would venture to suggest that we all reflect on what plays on our turntables.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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@ Stephen
Find me a survivor of Dresden, Hamburg or Berlin bombings living in Harringay ( ok let's be generous and make it Haringey ) and I would love to record his / her experiences.
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Permalink Reply by bookman on
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hi
I was there when the Fairfax bomb fell. We lived at number 88 (the bomb fell on the even numbered side not the odd) only 4 or 5 houses away from impact and the whole house came down on us. Luckily when we heard the bomb we dived into our Morrison shelter (like a big metal table with wire mesh around each side. It saved our lives. We were finally dug out by friends coughing and spluttering in the plaster dust. In true Brit tradition there was a van already in the street serving cups of tea by the time we were rescued. I'm now 85 , so was aged about 16 or 17 when the bomb fell. We evacuated to Oxford until the house was rebuilt a couple of years later and then returned to 88.
Photo from Harringay Online
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