police harassment !

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hugh on April 4, 2008 at 14:27

I'm questioning the implications that arise from the use of the word entitled. Fair enough he did imply that we're not entitled, but I think isolating the use of that word from the reasons for our not be able to access the data only tells half the story and so is a little misleading, non?

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on April 4, 2008 at 14:37

I don't see anything in the Data Protection Act or the Human Rights Act that prevent the police disclosing to us why they decided to raid a certain house in our neighbourhood. I do see that it's in their interests not to tell us if they got it wrong. There was certainly a lot of crowing about the brothel in Warham Rd.
I don't want to know the person's name or even address; I'm just intensely curious as to what might lead the police to knock my door down one day.

Permalink Reply by Hugh on April 4, 2008 at 14:50

A fair curiosity. I'll leave someone in the know to come back to you on that.

Permalink Reply by DavidJ on April 4, 2008 at 20:57

Quite right. The police service do have a responsibility here. We have heard nothing to suggest that something did not go very wrong here. There ought to be an explanation, otherwise this is very very depressing and damaging.

Permalink Reply by Liz on April 4, 2008 at 15:41

John, why don't you attend the LCSP meeting next week and put your question about reasons to enter property to the SNT representatives that come along?

Permalink Reply by rahman on April 4, 2008 at 22:18

I think we're being unfair on Glynn/ the police service here.

The raid on Burgoyne Road is a completely different matter. It resulted in arrests and convictions, so he is allowed to talk about that because the perpetrators had been tried in court and therefore it became a public record.

This incident on the other hand is not a matter of public record, so I will assume that data protection law etc applies. Especially since the person who was subjected to the raid has not even posted on here. How are we to know whether he wants Harringayonline to be discussing something thats his own business (for the time being)? If it had happened to me, Im not so sure that I would want the whole world to get involved (unless I had asked them to).

Glynn - I would be really glad if you would keep posting on any successful convictions regarding crime in the Harringay area. I like to know how well our police service are doing in making sure our neighbourhoods are safer.

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on April 4, 2008 at 22:39

I stand by what I said, the data protection act and the human rights act do not apply here for what I want to know. However, if I was the police I would not want to tell people what led me to break down someone's door when I got it wrong, it would probably not inspire confidence. I do not expect to know what happened, I am just curious.

Can the original poster please change the title of this discussion to something a little more suitable?

Permalink Reply by rahman on April 4, 2008 at 23:02

I guess Glynn will be able to answer very general questions about police raids on here, if you really want to know.

However, I think information relating to specific incidences would have to be released in a proper way. ie you would have to make a proper request in writing to the relevant department, and they would then release the info to you unless there were legitimate grounds to refuse under the freedom of information act.

I am not surprised that information is not given out on this forum - I'd certainly get reprimanded if I did anything of the sort, and I work in the public sector too.

Permalink Reply by phippsofacto on April 5, 2008 at 2:22

I moved here from Queens Drive in Finsbury Park, which was a lovely, quiet street by day, but an intimidating, and sometimes dangerous one by night. It suffered from prostitution, and the drug peddling that came with it. I saw a lot of disturbing things during the night and on called the police on a few occasions to break up antisocial, and sometimes violent behavior.

This was a cause for concern for all local residents, and a public meeting was held which proved very useful. It gave the residents an opportunity to give their version of events, and the police to explain what they thought could realistically happen. I might also say that many people jumped to conclusions that were quickly proved to be unfounded, not just by the police, but also by agencies working with them, such as the Health Service and Outreach Workers.

In fairness, the police made a big effort to take action in the area, and really did make a difference. They provided regular updates to the people who had expressed an interest in receiving them and kept up their efforts.

I think this thread has been unfairly critical of the police. I too think that if there was no good reason for the raid that the police should take steps to see that it does not happen again and offer an apology etc, but it is too simplistic to suggest that they watched an episode of Life On Mars and got all Gene Hunt on the residents. There has also been a good deal of backtracking on some of the comments expressed initially.

Can we not try to engage the police (as I think has been mentioned here already) in some meaningful discussion and cooperation rather than sniping at Glyn and his colleagues?

Peace & love guys ;)

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on April 5, 2008 at 9:44

I don't see that this has been unfairly critical of the police. The 'R' stuff has been quietly removed in my case.

They need to stick together so I don't expect Glyn to be able to tell us what happened here unless his boss OKs it; even if there's no good reason he's pointed out that the bad reason - it does not inspire confidence in the police to discuss their mistakes - is sufficient and I accept that, even though I am very curious.

Should we, as neighbours, stick together and insist that this is not good enough? Here's what I want if the Police bash down my front door by mistake, I want them to apologise and ARRANGE for the door to be fixed.

Permalink Reply by Jason on April 6, 2008 at 23:29

Just thought I would raise a few points about what Maddy has said, bearing in mind from her original post she has gone quiet

"who had decided on no evdence that it was a crack-cocaine house." How did you come to that conclusion that they kicked the door down on no evidence?

"The police accidentally left documents behind detailing how they obtained the warrant" If they accidentally left documents shouldn't you or the neighbour of the search notify the police and return the document. Isn't it police property. It's theft if you keep it knowing it isn't yours and there is a means of returning it.

"They said that they could not find out who lived in the house (although he is on the electoral register)" If they didn't know who lived in the house, how can you say that the police were affected by racist assumptions. Does the electoral register say if you are any skin colour.

"The occupants were likely to be dangerous, and causing anti-social behaviour in the community." If it was a warrant what kind of warrant was it? Don't police have to be careful if they don't know who the residents are. They would be naive to enter a house and think everything would be fine when they dont know who is inside. You know he is calm and reassuring but clearly according to this document they didnt know who he or his other friends were.

"Any observation of the house, or local enquiries would have made this clear." I thought police could see people going in and out of a house, but they are not allowed to watch what was going on inside or do their binoculars also see through walls now? What local enquiries can you without giving the game away.

"Perhaps they could have knocked instead of kicking the door down?" Yes I am sure if they have a warrant and knocked on a door the resident(s) would open, and perhaps have a cup of tea ready for them.

"No apology was made - he was told he was unlikely to get compensation and has taken the day off work today to fix the door." Are you sure that they did not apologise? I understand that if a search is lawful (ie power given by a magistrates) then you can not get compensation. Its the law made by legislators and not made by the police. Anyway he said that he would unlikely get compensation. Does sound like they said he would not get compensation.

If that resident wants to complain then he should go, not you.

Your post was counter-productive as you speak third hand and I believe have stirred things up without knowing the facts, which only your neighbour can ask about.

To head the post Police Harassment and then without evidence say affected by racist assumptions is more telling about you rather than the police.

Police are human and some do make honest mistakes (eg leaving that piece of paper behind) It is a different thing if they went there maliciouslly, which with a warrant from I am guessing a court they would not have, as there are strict guidelines for getting a warrant.

Permalink Reply by Nilgun Canver on April 7, 2008 at 2:44

It sounds terrible. They must be devistated. First, you need to find out who raided the house. It is not always the local police. Scotland Yard raids houses for variety of reasons. Pls. ask the local SNT sgnt. Ian Pyles to investigate. If it's the local police, in the first instance, you can complain to the Borough Commander. Richard Wood is currently the acting borough Commander. If it's not the local police then the SNT will tell you who to complain to. You can also send an e-mail to the Chair of the Metropolitan Police Authority, Len Duvall.

Cllr. Nilgun Canver
Cabinet Member for Enforcement and Safer Communities

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